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> Hopefully XMPP in the IM protocol incarnation can reunite the pitiful, broken up messenger world. This doesn’t happen in a world where SV sets the standard.
by SllX 8y ago
> Hopefully XMPP in the IM protocol incarnation can reunite the pitiful, broken up messenger world.
This doesn’t happen in a world where SV sets the standard.
First, it was a mistake to use XML. The issues with XML are well known so I won’t rehash them here, but if you really want some reading material, this[0] will suffice.
Second, end-to-end encryption by default is a critical necessity for any new standards. Having a central server to handle the key exchange is less than ideal, but still better than a total lack of encryption in most private communications because there is no shortage of entities looking to collect any kind of plain text traveling across the internet. At the very least, we can still make it expensive to process the private communications of private citizens.
Third, nobody makes money from IM being an open standard. The only ones with anything to gain from open standards IM are the people sending messages and potential new entrants into a market. Critically this leaves out existing interests with their own lock-in, app and sticker stores and payment processing services. You can’t make something like Animoji or Memoji a selling point for a new phone if you can suddenly use those features from a Samsung or OnePlus. It also leaves out VCs which are more interested in a good ROI than upending the world of messengers to make it a better place. The alignment of interests just isn’t there.
Fourth, for any kind of federated messenger system to take off and stay federated, you would need to be able to run your own server to connect to maintain your online presence, and make your own client to access your server. Not everyone would do this, and not everybody would have to, but you would most likely run into the issue of not enough people choosing to, with not enough back ends or front ends being developed and only a handful of the ones that are being worthwhile to actually use. Then once you decided there’s a better way to do X and try to change the standard to reflect this improvement, you would see delays in actually implementing this new method across different servers and clients causing the stack to become fragmented and frayed on both ends. Oh and this still doesn’t really make anybody enough money to actually be worth the effort.
In the end XMPP failed to shake up the messenger world because it just wasn’t a great standard, and any commercial interests that brought it to the mass market eventually phased out support because maintining even an XMPP gateway just wasn’t worth the opportunity costs and labour for what amounted to an extra bit of technical debt that hardly anybody even used. It didn’t make money, and it’s only real feature was an anti-feature to interests demanding some kind of lock-in.
Strangely enough you probably could use a blockchain to resolve some of the issues I raised, but you would still have to contend with the issue of making money and convincing enough people or coercing enough entities to actually make it into the messenger standard. Why bother when you could just use Slack with its craptastic Electron clients or iMessages or whatever the Google Messenger-of-the-Day is? Or whichever Messenger basically replacesd SMS in the country you live and any supplementary messenger you might need is right there in the App Store?
[0] http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML
- geezerjay 8y ago> First, it was a mistake to use XML. I don't see that mistake as a serious problem. A protocol is actually a specification of a data model and valid transitions between states. How that protocol is encoded doesn't change anything other than the ability to use currently existing infrastructure. Specifying JSON schemas for XMPP is a trivial task.
- rhn_mk1 8y agoLike the other commenter, I don't see XML as being an actual problem. While it might be an issue on the engineering side, the data representation details are almost irrelevant to adoption. I believe most of the issues you listed here stem from federation - the support of different features, slow rollout and thus no e2e encryprion by default. If we look at non-federated solutions to unify messaging, we have one under the name of Facebook. I don't think it's really what people mean when they say unified though, for reasons ranging from lack of choice, control, and being a single point of failure. In the end, I think that while federation brings obvious pains, there's no other choice. > Strangely enough you probably could use a blockchain to resolve some of the issues I raised, I'm interested to hear what opportunities you envision in that area.
- Boulth 8y agoI find it amusing that you consider XML bad and recommend blockchain in the same post.
- beagle3 8y agoWhatsApp uses XMPP (and this XML), and IIRC FB messenger does as well. XML is horrible, but did not impede adoption. The big problem is that everyone wants to own the users, and unlike email, there’s no expectation of interoperability.
- paulddraper 8y agoIs your reference advocating for S-expressions or assassination of the American president? "And now the one-time freest nation of the world has turned dictatorship with a dangerous moron in charge, set to attack Iraq to revenge his father's loss. Those who laughed when I said that stupidity is the worst threat to mankind laugh no more; they wait with bated breath to see if the world's most powerful incoherent moron will launch the world into a world war simply because he is too fucking stupid. But what really pisses me off is the spineless American people who fails to stop this madness. Presidents have been shot and killed before."