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He offers a clue: "[...] I was surprised to discover how little math is involved in day-to-day programming, especially for a web developer."

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
Exactly, but if he doesn't know much math, and he does suck at math, and it doesn't think he uses it much in his day-to-day programming, he will think it's pretty useless. And he'd be wrong. As commented in another reply: ... Never used more than a trivial amount of the math content, but the math processes of thought have been invaluable. In spades. How many people are crap at something, realise they can get along without it, and thereby conclude that it's useless? Most. It's like being incompetent and unaware of it. It's an unknown unknown.
- torme 16y ago
  I was pretty good at math in school, but I dont like math. Therefore I haven't focused on it. I think your assumption is that people think like: I like programming. I'm bad at math. Math doesn't help my programming anyways. Instead I think people think like: I like programming I'm bad at math, so I don't like it. I'm going to look at other fields to improve my programming. I think the problem is, and the author hints at it, is that people tend to over glorify the importance of math at the expense of drowning out other fields, like prose. In some fields like web programming, I would say that yes, my time is better spent learning how to write understandable code instead of how to solve complex equations. As a result, I probably won't ever program video games, but thats ok, games take a lot of math, and I wouldn't enjoy that anyways. It's not that I'm lazy and just don't want to get better at programming. I just want to get better at programming in ways that I enjoy the most. With infinite time, I would certainly do it both.
  - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
    And here we are again - same mis-conception: I would say that yes, my time is better spent learning how to write understandable code instead of how to solve complex equations. Math isn't about solving complex equations. Common mis-conception, totally wrong, very understandable for those whose experience of math is limited to calculus or pre-calculus. I don't solve complex equations, and yet I use math every day. The problem I see is that people who might be really really good at advanced math are often completely turned off by high school math and the teaching thereof. Hence they never get the chance to see the really fun stuff that turns out to be useful in unexpected ways. Even more, I'd guess that the really good programmers who hate math are in that group. I would so like to be able to test that hypothesis. There's a Ph.D. waiting in it.
    - torme 16y ago
      This response is frustrating because I feel like you didn't read my comment, but instead honed in on a single phrase, "complex equations". Even in the context of that sentence that's a moot point. If you'd like, replace "solve complex equations" with what you consider to be the best, most useful, fun part about math, and it does not change my point. I'm sorry I chose an example that seems to have offended you, but I do understand that there's more to math than solving complex equations. That said, to re-summarize my point tersely: If someone doesn't like a particular field, I still feel that they can be successful programmers by focusing on fields that they do like which are also useful.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  "How many people are crap at something, realise they can get along without it, and thereby conclude that it's useless? Most. It's like being incompetent and unaware of it. It's an unknown unknown." The reverse is also true. If you know a lot of math, you don't really know how you might have gotten along as a programmer without it. You might know that you would have struggled at the mathy programming you have done, but you wouldn't necessarily know if you would have excelled at other kinds of programming despite a lack of math depth.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

Exactly, but if he doesn't know much math, and he does suck at math, and it doesn't think he uses it much in his day-to-day programming, he will think it's pretty useless. And he'd be wrong. As commented in another reply: ... Never used more than a trivial amount of the math content, but the math processes of thought have been invaluable. In spades. How many people are crap at something, realise they can get along without it, and thereby conclude that it's useless? Most. It's like being incompetent and unaware of it. It's an unknown unknown.

torme 16y ago
I was pretty good at math in school, but I dont like math. Therefore I haven't focused on it. I think your assumption is that people think like: I like programming. I'm bad at math. Math doesn't help my programming anyways. Instead I think people think like: I like programming I'm bad at math, so I don't like it. I'm going to look at other fields to improve my programming. I think the problem is, and the author hints at it, is that people tend to over glorify the importance of math at the expense of drowning out other fields, like prose. In some fields like web programming, I would say that yes, my time is better spent learning how to write understandable code instead of how to solve complex equations. As a result, I probably won't ever program video games, but thats ok, games take a lot of math, and I wouldn't enjoy that anyways. It's not that I'm lazy and just don't want to get better at programming. I just want to get better at programming in ways that I enjoy the most. With infinite time, I would certainly do it both.
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  And here we are again - same mis-conception: I would say that yes, my time is better spent learning how to write understandable code instead of how to solve complex equations. Math isn't about solving complex equations. Common mis-conception, totally wrong, very understandable for those whose experience of math is limited to calculus or pre-calculus. I don't solve complex equations, and yet I use math every day. The problem I see is that people who might be really really good at advanced math are often completely turned off by high school math and the teaching thereof. Hence they never get the chance to see the really fun stuff that turns out to be useful in unexpected ways. Even more, I'd guess that the really good programmers who hate math are in that group. I would so like to be able to test that hypothesis. There's a Ph.D. waiting in it.
  - torme 16y ago
    This response is frustrating because I feel like you didn't read my comment, but instead honed in on a single phrase, "complex equations". Even in the context of that sentence that's a moot point. If you'd like, replace "solve complex equations" with what you consider to be the best, most useful, fun part about math, and it does not change my point. I'm sorry I chose an example that seems to have offended you, but I do understand that there's more to math than solving complex equations. That said, to re-summarize my point tersely: If someone doesn't like a particular field, I still feel that they can be successful programmers by focusing on fields that they do like which are also useful.
jonhendry 16y ago
"How many people are crap at something, realise they can get along without it, and thereby conclude that it's useless? Most. It's like being incompetent and unaware of it. It's an unknown unknown." The reverse is also true. If you know a lot of math, you don't really know how you might have gotten along as a programmer without it. You might know that you would have struggled at the mathy programming you have done, but you wouldn't necessarily know if you would have excelled at other kinds of programming despite a lack of math depth.