4 ms·

Those making $200k-$500k are the new middle class. Are you making that much but only own one house? Are your cars more than 5 years old... Ding... you're in t

Those making $200k-$500k are the new middle class. Are you making that much but only own one house? Are your cars more than 5 years old... Ding... you're in the middle class.

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
Depends on location. In the Bay area? Sure. I live in suburbs outside Portland, OR. My wife and I together make about $150k/year. We both own cars less than 3 years old. We only own 1 house, but we take a 2-week vacation a 1-week vacation every year.
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  Sounds like middle class to me
  - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
    Oh yeah, absolutely. I consider myself the quintessential middle class. My point was that kidsnow said $200-500k is middle class, but it really depends on location. It often feels that the majority of people on Hacker News are living in a Silicon Valley bubble. They talk as if $1,000,000 for a 1500 sq ft house is normal, as if $150k is decent entry-level wage, and...you get the idea. $200-500k is middle class for Silicon Valley, but the higher end of that range is definitely upper class where I live.
    - caro_douglos 8y ago
      the SEC uses income thresholds of 200k for an individual and 300k for joint (two years in a row). Should people in the middle class be able to invest? https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=8edfd12967d69c024485029d968ee737&r=SECTION&n=17y3.0.1.1.12.0.46.176 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=8edfd12967...
      - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
        Certainly, but they'll be working in trades of a couple thousand or tens of thousands. If you have an investment account (That isn't a 401(k), 403(b), Roth IRA etc.) with hundreds of thousands that didn't happen from a single lucky investment (Like buying Apple or Amazon 10+ years ago), then you're probably more upper class. Myself, outside my 401(k), I don't have any investments, mainly because I'm more concerned with eliminating my debts than taking on risks beyond my retirement account. But my wife and I make "only" $150k. If we made 300k, I might have some investments. Again, though, we need to stop focusing on specific dollar amounts, since cost of living varies so wildly around the country. Get out of the SF Bay bubble.
      - zeckalpha 8y ago
        Income is not wealth
Drybones 8y ago
I don't understand why frugality means you're middle class. I also don't understand how $200k-$500k, a very sizable income, even in the SF bay area, is magically the middle class now
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  $200-500k in the SF bay area is still considered middle class because housing prices have gotten so ridiculously high. The 2 br, 1 bath, 800 sq foot apartment I live in 3 years ago for $900/month would probably be $2,500 in SV. Likewise, the 1850 sq ft, 3 br, 2.5 bath house I live in now that I bought for $338k in 2015 would probably have been over $1,000,000 in SV.
  - refurb 8y ago
    No, it’s not middle class. If you recently bought a $1M plus condo in SF, you are most certainly upper class. I don’t care if it was a 2 bedroom apartment.
    - kidsnow 8y ago
      It's not about dollars. It's about your behaviors. Behaviors of the middle class. Middle class people typically do things like own one home, work two jobs, save for their kids' college, keep their cars for a while, etc.
      - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
        > work two jobs I wouldn't consider working two jobs to be middle class unless you meant two people in the household working one job each, unless there are a lot of people working two jobs to maintain a middle class lifestyle.
      - refurb 8y ago
        Yes, but location matters. If you have the common middle class trappings in SF, you are upper class, not middle. Hell, if you have a lawn in Sf you are super wealthy.
dleslie 8y ago
You're a whole order of magnitude off the _median_ income of the United States[0]. It sounds to me like you've got valley-vision. Time to travel and see the world, or at least more of the country you live in. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
realbarack 8y ago
$200k-$500k is a massive range, and $500k is certainly not middle class. That's above the 95th percentile even in the San Jose area[0]. Just because you have to think about money sometimes doesn't make you middle class. Your neighbors having more money than you also doesn't make you middle class. [0] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/income-inequality-in-the-bay-area-is-among-nations-highest/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/income-inequality-in-...
omg_ketchup 8y ago
Middle class is really defined on what you can get for your money, not a raw dollar amount. Quality of life and all that.

Those making $200k-$500k are the new middle class. Are you making that much but only own one house? Are your cars more than 5 years old... Ding... you're in the middle class.

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

Depends on location. In the Bay area? Sure. I live in suburbs outside Portland, OR. My wife and I together make about $150k/year. We both own cars less than 3 years old. We only own 1 house, but we take a 2-week vacation a 1-week vacation every year.

thatfrenchguy 8y ago
Sounds like middle class to me
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  Oh yeah, absolutely. I consider myself the quintessential middle class. My point was that kidsnow said $200-500k is middle class, but it really depends on location. It often feels that the majority of people on Hacker News are living in a Silicon Valley bubble. They talk as if $1,000,000 for a 1500 sq ft house is normal, as if $150k is decent entry-level wage, and...you get the idea. $200-500k is middle class for Silicon Valley, but the higher end of that range is definitely upper class where I live.
  - caro_douglos 8y ago
    the SEC uses income thresholds of 200k for an individual and 300k for joint (two years in a row). Should people in the middle class be able to invest? https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=8edfd12967d69c024485029d968ee737&r=SECTION&n=17y3.0.1.1.12.0.46.176 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=8edfd12967...
    - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
      Certainly, but they'll be working in trades of a couple thousand or tens of thousands. If you have an investment account (That isn't a 401(k), 403(b), Roth IRA etc.) with hundreds of thousands that didn't happen from a single lucky investment (Like buying Apple or Amazon 10+ years ago), then you're probably more upper class. Myself, outside my 401(k), I don't have any investments, mainly because I'm more concerned with eliminating my debts than taking on risks beyond my retirement account. But my wife and I make "only" $150k. If we made 300k, I might have some investments. Again, though, we need to stop focusing on specific dollar amounts, since cost of living varies so wildly around the country. Get out of the SF Bay bubble.
    - zeckalpha 8y ago
      Income is not wealth

Drybones 8y ago

I don't understand why frugality means you're middle class. I also don't understand how $200k-$500k, a very sizable income, even in the SF bay area, is magically the middle class now

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
$200-500k in the SF bay area is still considered middle class because housing prices have gotten so ridiculously high. The 2 br, 1 bath, 800 sq foot apartment I live in 3 years ago for $900/month would probably be $2,500 in SV. Likewise, the 1850 sq ft, 3 br, 2.5 bath house I live in now that I bought for $338k in 2015 would probably have been over $1,000,000 in SV.
- refurb 8y ago
  No, it’s not middle class. If you recently bought a $1M plus condo in SF, you are most certainly upper class. I don’t care if it was a 2 bedroom apartment.
  - kidsnow 8y ago
    It's not about dollars. It's about your behaviors. Behaviors of the middle class. Middle class people typically do things like own one home, work two jobs, save for their kids' college, keep their cars for a while, etc.
    - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
      > work two jobs I wouldn't consider working two jobs to be middle class unless you meant two people in the household working one job each, unless there are a lot of people working two jobs to maintain a middle class lifestyle.
    - refurb 8y ago
      Yes, but location matters. If you have the common middle class trappings in SF, you are upper class, not middle. Hell, if you have a lawn in Sf you are super wealthy.

dleslie 8y ago

You're a whole order of magnitude off the _median_ income of the United States[0]. It sounds to me like you've got valley-vision. Time to travel and see the world, or at least more of the country you live in. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

realbarack 8y ago

$200k-$500k is a massive range, and $500k is certainly not middle class. That's above the 95th percentile even in the San Jose area[0]. Just because you have to think about money sometimes doesn't make you middle class. Your neighbors having more money than you also doesn't make you middle class. [0] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/income-inequality-in-the-bay-area-is-among-nations-highest/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/income-inequality-in-...

omg_ketchup 8y ago

Middle class is really defined on what you can get for your money, not a raw dollar amount. Quality of life and all that.