9 ms·

Well in this respect: Amazon chooses to link the two discussions themselves. They could have easily made their communication less open to an easy attack by pled

by wjnc 8y ago

Well in this respect: Amazon chooses to link the two discussions themselves. They could have easily made their communication less open to an easy attack by pledging $15 an hour while lobbying silently, or at least communicating that on another moment. They could have noble intentions with both moves. I'd even expect them to have noble intentions since $15 seems an unreasonable large increase from $7.25. Why link to two discussions? It's an error of their communication department IMHO. You've got to think as the receiving party. The receiving parties of both messages are separate: communicate them separately.

YorkianTones 8y ago
While it would be in Amazon's interest to get the federal minimum wage increased after setting their internal minimum wage at $15/hr, why is this negative? Aligning business interests with the public good is brilliant IMO and I strongly feel a $15 minimum wage, plus regular increases, is for the public good. Kudos to Amazon for making the wage increase and aligning their business interests and lobbying efforts to a federal wage increase.
IgorPartola 8y ago
Wait, why is it bad that Amazon is lobbying for this? Would you say it was bad if, say, ACLU was lobbying for a $15 minimum wage? My guess is that from Amazon's point of view, they are winning political points by not just raising their own minimum wage to $15, they are also using their standing in the industry to increase quality of life for non-Amazon minimum wage workers. If they succeed, I am happy to grant them the credit they are due. If a big corporation doing the right thing results in more profits for them, I don't see that as grounds for criticism. Did we criticize Starbucks when they offered a competitive wage and free college education? Or any of the other companies that chose to pay above the minimum?
- jpmoyn 8y ago
  It isn't bad that they are doing it, they are just pointing out the probable motivation.
- fendy3002 8y ago
  My guess is because how big advantage amazon has compared to smaller companies. They have good tax cut. Taking that aside, they also applied tight working time and high kpi, which can't be applied by smaller companies. And it gets better with PR stunt like this. And CMIIW, I think increased minimum wage will increase goods price and higher skilled worker's wage overall, making those changes useless again. It's just my 2 cents, with source limited from following recent news.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  By lobbying for the $15 minimum wage they are working to make sure that their competitors don’t retain any competitive advantage on wages. So now the brick and mortar shop that is barely in business because of competition with Amazon is going to get hit with a big bump in wage costs. They either will raise prices, or go out of business, both scenarios benefit Amazon.
  - jdmichal 8y ago
    That's a nice story, but it's just that. Alternatively, all the minimum wage workers will have more expendable income. Some of that may be spent at those brick-and-mortar shops, and will offset the additional costs. Remember that the velocity of money makes it a non-zero-sum game. EDIT: Ends up that Wikipedia covers this nicely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#Economic_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta... "The interconnection of price levels, central bank policy, wage agreements, and total aggregate demand creates a situation in which conclusions drawn from macroeconomic analysis are highly influenced by the underlying assumptions of the interpreter." Also has a nice side-bar quote from Henry Ford, who was partially known for higher wages, and which I think addresses the point I was trying to make (emphasis mine): "The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers. One's own employees ought to be one's own best customers."
    - WillPostForFood 8y ago
      Or they spend their extra money at Amazon because prices are lower. Or you are right and it helps brick and mortar in the handful of cities with Amazon warehouses, but hurts everywhere else. Worst case for Amazon is they maintain status quo by forcing competitors cost up. Best case for Amazon is that they drive some of their competition out of business, or take some of that business because super giant Amazon is better able to absorb the increased wage cost than smaller businesses. It is very much like their state sales tax collection strategy. Oppose it for as long as possible, accept it, then lobby for everyone else to have to do it.
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  Who claimed it was bad?
- wjnc 8y ago
  I'm not arguing that it's bad to lobby for a higher minimum wage. Only that to communicate both the raising of your wages and the lobbying at the same time, you mix two messages for different audiences. Hence the sour replies, that mix private actions with public beliefs of a firm. The argument that their relative competitive positions changes by first-moving on wages seems not in doubt? Obviously when the wages double for everyone the most capital intensive gain competitive power.

by wjnc 8y ago

YorkianTones 8y ago

While it would be in Amazon's interest to get the federal minimum wage increased after setting their internal minimum wage at $15/hr, why is this negative? Aligning business interests with the public good is brilliant IMO and I strongly feel a $15 minimum wage, plus regular increases, is for the public good. Kudos to Amazon for making the wage increase and aligning their business interests and lobbying efforts to a federal wage increase.

IgorPartola 8y ago

Wait, why is it bad that Amazon is lobbying for this? Would you say it was bad if, say, ACLU was lobbying for a $15 minimum wage? My guess is that from Amazon's point of view, they are winning political points by not just raising their own minimum wage to $15, they are also using their standing in the industry to increase quality of life for non-Amazon minimum wage workers. If they succeed, I am happy to grant them the credit they are due. If a big corporation doing the right thing results in more profits for them, I don't see that as grounds for criticism. Did we criticize Starbucks when they offered a competitive wage and free college education? Or any of the other companies that chose to pay above the minimum?

jpmoyn 8y ago
It isn't bad that they are doing it, they are just pointing out the probable motivation.
fendy3002 8y ago
My guess is because how big advantage amazon has compared to smaller companies. They have good tax cut. Taking that aside, they also applied tight working time and high kpi, which can't be applied by smaller companies. And it gets better with PR stunt like this. And CMIIW, I think increased minimum wage will increase goods price and higher skilled worker's wage overall, making those changes useless again. It's just my 2 cents, with source limited from following recent news.
WillPostForFood 8y ago
By lobbying for the $15 minimum wage they are working to make sure that their competitors don’t retain any competitive advantage on wages. So now the brick and mortar shop that is barely in business because of competition with Amazon is going to get hit with a big bump in wage costs. They either will raise prices, or go out of business, both scenarios benefit Amazon.
- jdmichal 8y ago
  That's a nice story, but it's just that. Alternatively, all the minimum wage workers will have more expendable income. Some of that may be spent at those brick-and-mortar shops, and will offset the additional costs. Remember that the velocity of money makes it a non-zero-sum game. EDIT: Ends up that Wikipedia covers this nicely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#Economic_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta... "The interconnection of price levels, central bank policy, wage agreements, and total aggregate demand creates a situation in which conclusions drawn from macroeconomic analysis are highly influenced by the underlying assumptions of the interpreter." Also has a nice side-bar quote from Henry Ford, who was partially known for higher wages, and which I think addresses the point I was trying to make (emphasis mine): "The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers. One's own employees ought to be one's own best customers."
  - WillPostForFood 8y ago
    Or they spend their extra money at Amazon because prices are lower. Or you are right and it helps brick and mortar in the handful of cities with Amazon warehouses, but hurts everywhere else. Worst case for Amazon is they maintain status quo by forcing competitors cost up. Best case for Amazon is that they drive some of their competition out of business, or take some of that business because super giant Amazon is better able to absorb the increased wage cost than smaller businesses. It is very much like their state sales tax collection strategy. Oppose it for as long as possible, accept it, then lobby for everyone else to have to do it.
ilikehurdles 8y ago
Who claimed it was bad?
wjnc 8y ago
I'm not arguing that it's bad to lobby for a higher minimum wage. Only that to communicate both the raising of your wages and the lobbying at the same time, you mix two messages for different audiences. Hence the sour replies, that mix private actions with public beliefs of a firm. The argument that their relative competitive positions changes by first-moving on wages seems not in doubt? Obviously when the wages double for everyone the most capital intensive gain competitive power.