5 ms·

> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actuall

by mbesto 8y ago

> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actually paying people more money, but if everyone has that same amount of money then you get wage push inflation. Then everyone loses. This is also why minimum wage discussions always spiral out of control...there really is no good long term solution for setting minimum wages.

Siecje 8y ago
Unless you are Amazon and people get more spending money. Yes everything else will go up with minimum wage but not right away.
fhood 8y ago
This isn't necessarily the case, as shown by countries like Australia with very high minimum wages.
- virmundi 8y ago
  Australia has a very high cost of living. Look at the cost of power.
  - miemo 8y ago
    the cost of power is a political mismanagement unrelated to our minimum wage
- xori 8y ago
  For context the Australian minimum wage is 12.94 USD and has the 12th highest cost of living in the world.
  - tbarker25 8y ago
    The minimum wage in Australia doesn't work the same way as it does in the US. Australian workers will under an award -- effectively a industry-specific contract negotiated by the respective union. An Amazon worker would likely be on the Storage Services and Wholesale Award. This starts at $20.72 (14.92 USD) for fulltime, and $25.90 (18.64 USD) for casual work. There's higher wages based on experience and responsibilities, as well as penalty rates. Public holiday pay starts at $56.98 (41.01 USD). As someone who has recently moved from Melbourne to Boston; if anything I feel like Australia has a lower cost of living. According to the one source I found, prices including rent in Boston, MA are 36.53% higher than in Melbourne https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/storage-services-and-wholesale-award-ma000084-pay-guide.pdf.aspx https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/storage-ser... https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=Boston%2C+MA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
throwaway080383 8y ago
It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.
- baldfat 8y ago
  Are you saying your salary is based on keeping the working poor? OR are you saying you think corporations and their investors deserve a low wage workforce that the government will take care of with your tax dollars? I find no logical sense other then your mad that people can make money for WORKING. When people make $15 an hour they will need less government assistance. This will take away from corporate's profits, which has gone through the roof without an salary bumps the last 40 years.
  - shawnz 8y ago
    I don't think they are saying anything like that. I think they are saying that a minimum wage increase would bring the lowest earners closer to the higher earners, rather than causing inflation across the board. So that's a good thing if you care about wealth inequality.
    - throwaway080383 8y ago
      Yes, to be clear, I think raising the minimum wage and decreasing wealth inequality is a good thing, even if it marginally negatively affects me in the short term.
    - baldfat 8y ago
      I think inflation is just what people on the conservative economic side like to always throw out. Inflation is the new Bogeyman - https://www.bworldonline.com/inflation-become-bogeyman/ https://www.bworldonline.com/inflation-become-bogeyman/ Edit: After submitting for 1 minute The number one weapon against doing anything to help the working poor is that it will cause inflation. It's a hollow baseless argument.
  - 8y ago
patrickthebold 8y ago
> Then everyone loses. Inflation certainly counteracts some of the wage growth, but it's a much stronger claim that it will result in a net lose. Any evidence for that claim?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
jopsen 8y ago
It might not be easy to come up with perfect equation for regulating the minimum wage. Bumping the minimum wage by law seems like an arbitrary temporary fix, that will need to be adjusted in another 25 years. But a temporary somewhat arbitrary fix, might be better than nothing. Don't let perfect get in the way of good enough for now.
nashashmi 8y ago
The minimum wage argument is about tipping the scales of business wealth distribution away from seniority and the business and into the pockets of those lowest on the totem pole. This balances the scale of products developed and resources spent more towards low income people and away from aristocratic goods and services. However, in the case of Amazon, a company already very low on margins and on theory of low incomes, this would result in higher costs from the market behemoth
gowld 8y ago
That's a radical theory; can you give a more detailed explanation? Mainstream economists and political theorists believe that raising minimum wage reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability, which reduces the risk of things like crime, Great Depression, and violent revolution. Even if minimum wage growth hits its practical max and creates inflation, (1) that's easy enough to detect and correct, (2) it's not a big deal if all the numbers go up together; the main loss is in reprinted menus.
- exolymph 8y ago
  > Mainstream economists and political theorists believe that raising minimum wage reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability There is nowhere near the level of consensus on this issue that you're implying.
- olalonde 8y ago
  That's incorrect. Mainstream economists are quite divided on whether minimum wage laws help the poor, let alone the other things you mentioned. See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage
- mbesto 8y ago
  > reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability > which reduces the risk of things like crime, Great Depression, and violent revolution. Which has nothing to do with the point I made... > (1) that's easy enough to detect and correct, (2) it's not a big deal if all the numbers go up together Inflation is easy to detect and correct? Japan would like to have a word with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)

by mbesto 8y ago

Siecje 8y ago

Unless you are Amazon and people get more spending money. Yes everything else will go up with minimum wage but not right away.

fhood 8y ago

This isn't necessarily the case, as shown by countries like Australia with very high minimum wages.

virmundi 8y ago
Australia has a very high cost of living. Look at the cost of power.
- miemo 8y ago
  the cost of power is a political mismanagement unrelated to our minimum wage
xori 8y ago
For context the Australian minimum wage is 12.94 USD and has the 12th highest cost of living in the world.
- tbarker25 8y ago
  The minimum wage in Australia doesn't work the same way as it does in the US. Australian workers will under an award -- effectively a industry-specific contract negotiated by the respective union. An Amazon worker would likely be on the Storage Services and Wholesale Award. This starts at $20.72 (14.92 USD) for fulltime, and $25.90 (18.64 USD) for casual work. There's higher wages based on experience and responsibilities, as well as penalty rates. Public holiday pay starts at $56.98 (41.01 USD). As someone who has recently moved from Melbourne to Boston; if anything I feel like Australia has a lower cost of living. According to the one source I found, prices including rent in Boston, MA are 36.53% higher than in Melbourne https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/storage-services-and-wholesale-award-ma000084-pay-guide.pdf.aspx https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/storage-ser... https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States&city1=Melbourne&city2=Boston%2C+MA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

throwaway080383 8y ago

It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.

baldfat 8y ago
Are you saying your salary is based on keeping the working poor? OR are you saying you think corporations and their investors deserve a low wage workforce that the government will take care of with your tax dollars? I find no logical sense other then your mad that people can make money for WORKING. When people make $15 an hour they will need less government assistance. This will take away from corporate's profits, which has gone through the roof without an salary bumps the last 40 years.
- shawnz 8y ago
  I don't think they are saying anything like that. I think they are saying that a minimum wage increase would bring the lowest earners closer to the higher earners, rather than causing inflation across the board. So that's a good thing if you care about wealth inequality.
  - throwaway080383 8y ago
    Yes, to be clear, I think raising the minimum wage and decreasing wealth inequality is a good thing, even if it marginally negatively affects me in the short term.
  - baldfat 8y ago
    I think inflation is just what people on the conservative economic side like to always throw out. Inflation is the new Bogeyman - https://www.bworldonline.com/inflation-become-bogeyman/ https://www.bworldonline.com/inflation-become-bogeyman/ Edit: After submitting for 1 minute The number one weapon against doing anything to help the working poor is that it will cause inflation. It's a hollow baseless argument.
- 8y ago

patrickthebold 8y ago

> Then everyone loses. Inflation certainly counteracts some of the wage growth, but it's a much stronger claim that it will result in a net lose. Any evidence for that claim?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

jopsen 8y ago

It might not be easy to come up with perfect equation for regulating the minimum wage. Bumping the minimum wage by law seems like an arbitrary temporary fix, that will need to be adjusted in another 25 years. But a temporary somewhat arbitrary fix, might be better than nothing. Don't let perfect get in the way of good enough for now.

nashashmi 8y ago

The minimum wage argument is about tipping the scales of business wealth distribution away from seniority and the business and into the pockets of those lowest on the totem pole. This balances the scale of products developed and resources spent more towards low income people and away from aristocratic goods and services. However, in the case of Amazon, a company already very low on margins and on theory of low incomes, this would result in higher costs from the market behemoth

gowld 8y ago

That's a radical theory; can you give a more detailed explanation? Mainstream economists and political theorists believe that raising minimum wage reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability, which reduces the risk of things like crime, Great Depression, and violent revolution. Even if minimum wage growth hits its practical max and creates inflation, (1) that's easy enough to detect and correct, (2) it's not a big deal if all the numbers go up together; the main loss is in reprinted menus.

exolymph 8y ago
> Mainstream economists and political theorists believe that raising minimum wage reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability There is nowhere near the level of consensus on this issue that you're implying.
olalonde 8y ago
That's incorrect. Mainstream economists are quite divided on whether minimum wage laws help the poor, let alone the other things you mentioned. See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage
mbesto 8y ago
> reduces wealth inequality which creates economic and political stability > which reduces the risk of things like crime, Great Depression, and violent revolution. Which has nothing to do with the point I made... > (1) that's easy enough to detect and correct, (2) it's not a big deal if all the numbers go up together Inflation is easy to detect and correct? Japan would like to have a word with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)