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> Okay I now assume that all companies will harvest as much data as they can. You say harvest, as if they are taking something. The reality is, people always

> Okay I now assume that all companies will harvest as much data as they can. You say harvest, as if they are taking something. The reality is, people always gave the data. The companies just kept what it was freely given. It's a bit hypocritical if I get upset that you keep something I gave you. The reality is, the problem wasn't with the users who gave the data, or the companies who kept what was given, but rather the people who made it possible to do it so easily in the first place. Browser makers share the majority of this responsibility. We look to them to create secure browsers that can't be hacked, but completely ignore the fact that they created browsers that are easily tracked. And then we adopt Chrome, a browser made by a company built on tracking. And I find it funny that Brendan Eich's creation is probably the biggest reason we are in this situation in the first place.

apexalpha 8y ago
People - not the ones here on HN - have no clue what they 'give' away. They also have no clue how often small companies, indie game devs etc make a living by selling said information that was 'given' to them. These data aggregators can build profiles on people by buying data from as many sources as possible. How is the average user supposed to know this happens on the background when they load www.nytimes.com? How are they supposed to know that those flashy banners contain entire programs designed to track them? How should the average user now that the ad banners on acb.com are the same as on xyz.com? How should the average user know that a FB button on every website also tracks you. As does G+ button, as does Twiter etc... How are regular users supposed to know how much data they produce online. Honestly it even scares me to see how many JS is loaded on average websites. Just for tracking, just for profile building. This isn't given. It's taken.
- jasonlotito 8y ago
  > People - not the ones here on HN - have no clue what they 'give' away. Doesn't change the fact that browsers requests assets from servers, not the other way around. People being ignorant of this fact doesn't change this fact. Rather, again, we should place the blame on the thing giving this data to sites: browsers. > How is the average user supposed to know this happens on the background when they load www.nytimes.com? ... They shouldn't have to, and thinking they should know this is silly. Which is why I don't blame the users. I blame the browsers. The browsers are the ones sending user data. > This isn't given. It's taken. No, it's actually not. This is delusional thinking at best, and ignores where the problem lies. Browsers are giving the necessary information to allow people to be tracked. Only now do we see companies addressing this (see Safari for example). Suggesting that given data is instead taken allows the people that actually gave the data to the companies to continue to get away with it, and is more harmful. Stop lying.
  - dang 8y ago
    Incivility like that will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another comment is or feels. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
BrendanEich 8y ago
The cookie was and is still more critical than JS. Cross-site elements starting with IMG in 1993, ditto.

apexalpha 8y ago

People - not the ones here on HN - have no clue what they 'give' away. They also have no clue how often small companies, indie game devs etc make a living by selling said information that was 'given' to them. These data aggregators can build profiles on people by buying data from as many sources as possible. How is the average user supposed to know this happens on the background when they load www.nytimes.com? How are they supposed to know that those flashy banners contain entire programs designed to track them? How should the average user now that the ad banners on acb.com are the same as on xyz.com? How should the average user know that a FB button on every website also tracks you. As does G+ button, as does Twiter etc... How are regular users supposed to know how much data they produce online. Honestly it even scares me to see how many JS is loaded on average websites. Just for tracking, just for profile building. This isn't given. It's taken.

jasonlotito 8y ago
> People - not the ones here on HN - have no clue what they 'give' away. Doesn't change the fact that browsers requests assets from servers, not the other way around. People being ignorant of this fact doesn't change this fact. Rather, again, we should place the blame on the thing giving this data to sites: browsers. > How is the average user supposed to know this happens on the background when they load www.nytimes.com? ... They shouldn't have to, and thinking they should know this is silly. Which is why I don't blame the users. I blame the browsers. The browsers are the ones sending user data. > This isn't given. It's taken. No, it's actually not. This is delusional thinking at best, and ignores where the problem lies. Browsers are giving the necessary information to allow people to be tracked. Only now do we see companies addressing this (see Safari for example). Suggesting that given data is instead taken allows the people that actually gave the data to the companies to continue to get away with it, and is more harmful. Stop lying.
- dang 8y ago
  Incivility like that will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another comment is or feels. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

BrendanEich 8y ago

The cookie was and is still more critical than JS. Cross-site elements starting with IMG in 1993, ditto.