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Don't forget the Supercharger network; seems like that's another big part of Tesla's first-mover advantage that any serious competitor will need to address at s

Don't forget the Supercharger network; seems like that's another big part of Tesla's first-mover advantage that any serious competitor will need to address at some point if they want to "catch up".

sbradford26 8y ago
Oh definitely, so there are plenty of other electric car charging stations. The issue though is that there is no uniform paying experience and also you don't know what kind of charging speed you will get. I have been looking at the new Hyundai Kona Electric and the Kia niro EV which are both competitively priced.... But you don't have the super charger network which might be a deal breaker.
- mikestew 8y ago
  The issue though is that there is no uniform paying experience I grab the appropriate card of the two (Blink and ChargePoint) in the console, tap it, sorted. But you don't have the super charger network which might be a deal breaker. In seven years of Nissan Leaf ownership, I’d bet i could count the number of times I’ve used a public charger on both hands. Electric’s aren’t like ICE where you’re always looking for a place to fill up. You fill up at home, like civilized people do. Super charger is nice, but I personally wouldn’t factor it in.
  - sbradford26 8y ago
    Oh definitely, the charging at in my garage is a main reason that I would like an EV. My issue is that my family lives in Michigan while I am in upstate NY. So the super charger stations would be super useful for that trip when I don't fly. That definitely is a small amount of my total travels but I only have one car, so it is a consideration. Also it is good to hear that it only takes about two cards for charging. It is something that you think about but can't really test how it would work with your driving until you do it.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      An irrelevant question: Do drive through Canada, or is it too much hassle? (I live in Europe; within most of the EU a national border is irrelevant to planning a route – there is no check, just a blue sign "Welcome to XYZ". When I visited Quebec, I couldn't drive with the rental car to the USA, so I never saw the border.)
      - mikestew 8y ago
        If your question is not directed specifically at OP, and is "if you live close to the US/Canadian border...", I can answer since OP hasn't. Being a few hours from the border in WA state, we don't think a thing about crossing the border. It takes time (an hour or more, depending), and as a U. S. citizen I find it ironic that coming back is often more hassle than leaving, but we otherwise don't think much about it except for the time needed.
  - joeyramone 8y ago
    I can imagine you never took a long road trip (say 600+ miles) with your Leaf. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has.
    - linsomniac 8y ago
      Agreed. I worried after I got my Tesla 2 years ago that it would just be a toy, only usable for short range trips. But 2 weeks after we got it we went on a 2,300 mile each way road trip, and it worked great. I was sold on the super charger turning the car into a truly useful thing instead of just a toy. And the new ~3.5x faster chargers are going to make it a gas-like experience.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - mikestew 8y ago
      You would imagine correctly. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has. I understand the value just fine. And for me, it's not very high; certainly not high enough to pay more than double for the car (had Model S's even existed when the Leaf was purchased).
      - greglindahl 8y ago
        So, basically, you're saying that the supercharger network has no value for anyone because you own a Leaf? No wonder Tesla-related threads on HN are such high value. Next up: guy complaining that electric cars will never succeed because he lives in an apartment and can't currently charge at home.
        mikestew 8y ago
        So, basically, you're saying that the supercharger network has no value for anyone because you own a Leaf? I can’t begin to imagine the mental confusion necessary to lead you to that conclusion. To be clear, no, that’s not what I said at all.
  - drewg123 8y ago
    The supercharger network is one of the main reasons I bought a Tesla, rather than a competing car like a Leaf or a Bolt. Without the Supercharger network, road-trips become charge-seeking adventures. I recall reading a story about somebody who drove their Bolt across a few states, and how they had to stop for hours at Chevy dealers, and scrounge charging wherever they can. With my Tesla, I stop for 30-45min every few hours while I get a snack and use the restroom. Until there is a widespread, standard high speed charging network available, Tesla is basically the only choice for an EV that can do road trips.
    - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
      "Infrequently-used feature Z is why I bought the $80k car instead of the $40k car." Really? Unless you do road trips every week, you'd be way better off buying the Bolt or Leaf and then renting an ICE for whenever you go on a road trip.
      - brianwawok 8y ago
        My minivan is a road trip machine. Until we have EV minivans, my electric car would be in region only. Further trip is to a nearby airport. Maybe if I replace my minivan with an EV minivan I would care.
derekp7 8y ago
Couldn't the mainstream auto manufactures install chargers at each of their dealers? It seems that for any major car brand, there are more dealerships than there are Tesla chargers.
- QuotedForTruth 8y ago
  Seems like a decent idea, but it wouldnt be free. The dealers are independent businesses. Also have you ever seen a dealership with a bunch of empty parking spaces? The charging stations will be competing with the dealership's storage space for cars.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Dealerships aren't in the right locations to make long-distance travel work out. You'd have huge holes in the network.
- kbob 8y ago
  Would you enjoy spending several hours of your vacation hanging around auto dealers' showrooms?
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    How is Tesla any different? My road trip to the beach would take 4 hours more in a Tesla than a ICE. That time would be waiting at rest stops along the way...
compcoffee 8y ago
>Don't forget the Supercharger network Part of the VW "Dieselgate" settlement requires VW to invest $2BB in charger infrastructure. Installing chargers is not rocket science, nor a huge advantage.
- cowmix 8y ago
  It is harder than you think and it is a HUGE advantage. I have a non-Tesla EV, trust me, the public charging network is pretty horrible.
mrfusion 8y ago
I think a cool start up idea would be to install fast chargers at peoples homes and they could then offer them up to travelers for a fee. The startup would install the charger and split the fee with the homeowner. Anyone want to work on that with me? Or feel free to critique. It’s sort of like air bnb for car charging.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Fast chargers need a high voltage electric hookup, which is expensive and often unavailable in residential neighborhoods.
- brianwawok 8y ago
  Capital costs seem rough. You can’t use a normal wall plug for a supercharger. How many amps do they pull, 200? You would need a new breaker box and the super charger hardware.... say 10k per house. Who is going to spend 10k to get a charger in their driveway strangers can stop by and pay you $20 to use? Uber works because people already own the car. Even EV people don’t already own a supercharger, they have a much simpler one.
octorian 8y ago
> Don't forget the Supercharger network For some reason, the majority of the "competition" does forget the supercharger network. Its the reason Tesla is a road-trip car, and capable of being your primary/only vehicle. Meanwhile all other EVs are nothing more than commuter cars. Maybe suitable for day-trips if you're really lucky. Tesla also acknowledges that you need these high-speed charging stations conveniently located along the highway. Not in the middle of town, and certainly not in the parking lot of a store you'd never spend more than 10 minutes at.

Don't forget the Supercharger network; seems like that's another big part of Tesla's first-mover advantage that any serious competitor will need to address at some point if they want to "catch up".

sbradford26 8y ago

Oh definitely, so there are plenty of other electric car charging stations. The issue though is that there is no uniform paying experience and also you don't know what kind of charging speed you will get. I have been looking at the new Hyundai Kona Electric and the Kia niro EV which are both competitively priced.... But you don't have the super charger network which might be a deal breaker.

mikestew 8y ago
The issue though is that there is no uniform paying experience I grab the appropriate card of the two (Blink and ChargePoint) in the console, tap it, sorted. But you don't have the super charger network which might be a deal breaker. In seven years of Nissan Leaf ownership, I’d bet i could count the number of times I’ve used a public charger on both hands. Electric’s aren’t like ICE where you’re always looking for a place to fill up. You fill up at home, like civilized people do. Super charger is nice, but I personally wouldn’t factor it in.
- sbradford26 8y ago
  Oh definitely, the charging at in my garage is a main reason that I would like an EV. My issue is that my family lives in Michigan while I am in upstate NY. So the super charger stations would be super useful for that trip when I don't fly. That definitely is a small amount of my total travels but I only have one car, so it is a consideration. Also it is good to hear that it only takes about two cards for charging. It is something that you think about but can't really test how it would work with your driving until you do it.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    An irrelevant question: Do drive through Canada, or is it too much hassle? (I live in Europe; within most of the EU a national border is irrelevant to planning a route – there is no check, just a blue sign "Welcome to XYZ". When I visited Quebec, I couldn't drive with the rental car to the USA, so I never saw the border.)
    - mikestew 8y ago
      If your question is not directed specifically at OP, and is "if you live close to the US/Canadian border...", I can answer since OP hasn't. Being a few hours from the border in WA state, we don't think a thing about crossing the border. It takes time (an hour or more, depending), and as a U. S. citizen I find it ironic that coming back is often more hassle than leaving, but we otherwise don't think much about it except for the time needed.
- joeyramone 8y ago
  I can imagine you never took a long road trip (say 600+ miles) with your Leaf. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has.
  - linsomniac 8y ago
    Agreed. I worried after I got my Tesla 2 years ago that it would just be a toy, only usable for short range trips. But 2 weeks after we got it we went on a 2,300 mile each way road trip, and it worked great. I was sold on the super charger turning the car into a truly useful thing instead of just a toy. And the new ~3.5x faster chargers are going to make it a gas-like experience.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - mikestew 8y ago
    You would imagine correctly. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has. I understand the value just fine. And for me, it's not very high; certainly not high enough to pay more than double for the car (had Model S's even existed when the Leaf was purchased).
    - greglindahl 8y ago
      So, basically, you're saying that the supercharger network has no value for anyone because you own a Leaf? No wonder Tesla-related threads on HN are such high value. Next up: guy complaining that electric cars will never succeed because he lives in an apartment and can't currently charge at home.
      - mikestew 8y ago
        So, basically, you're saying that the supercharger network has no value for anyone because you own a Leaf? I can’t begin to imagine the mental confusion necessary to lead you to that conclusion. To be clear, no, that’s not what I said at all.
- drewg123 8y ago
  The supercharger network is one of the main reasons I bought a Tesla, rather than a competing car like a Leaf or a Bolt. Without the Supercharger network, road-trips become charge-seeking adventures. I recall reading a story about somebody who drove their Bolt across a few states, and how they had to stop for hours at Chevy dealers, and scrounge charging wherever they can. With my Tesla, I stop for 30-45min every few hours while I get a snack and use the restroom. Until there is a widespread, standard high speed charging network available, Tesla is basically the only choice for an EV that can do road trips.
  - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
    "Infrequently-used feature Z is why I bought the $80k car instead of the $40k car." Really? Unless you do road trips every week, you'd be way better off buying the Bolt or Leaf and then renting an ICE for whenever you go on a road trip.
    - brianwawok 8y ago
      My minivan is a road trip machine. Until we have EV minivans, my electric car would be in region only. Further trip is to a nearby airport. Maybe if I replace my minivan with an EV minivan I would care.

derekp7 8y ago

Couldn't the mainstream auto manufactures install chargers at each of their dealers? It seems that for any major car brand, there are more dealerships than there are Tesla chargers.

QuotedForTruth 8y ago
Seems like a decent idea, but it wouldnt be free. The dealers are independent businesses. Also have you ever seen a dealership with a bunch of empty parking spaces? The charging stations will be competing with the dealership's storage space for cars.
greglindahl 8y ago
Dealerships aren't in the right locations to make long-distance travel work out. You'd have huge holes in the network.
kbob 8y ago
Would you enjoy spending several hours of your vacation hanging around auto dealers' showrooms?
- ntsplnkv2 8y ago
  How is Tesla any different? My road trip to the beach would take 4 hours more in a Tesla than a ICE. That time would be waiting at rest stops along the way...

compcoffee 8y ago

>Don't forget the Supercharger network Part of the VW "Dieselgate" settlement requires VW to invest $2BB in charger infrastructure. Installing chargers is not rocket science, nor a huge advantage.

cowmix 8y ago
It is harder than you think and it is a HUGE advantage. I have a non-Tesla EV, trust me, the public charging network is pretty horrible.

mrfusion 8y ago

I think a cool start up idea would be to install fast chargers at peoples homes and they could then offer them up to travelers for a fee. The startup would install the charger and split the fee with the homeowner. Anyone want to work on that with me? Or feel free to critique. It’s sort of like air bnb for car charging.

greglindahl 8y ago
Fast chargers need a high voltage electric hookup, which is expensive and often unavailable in residential neighborhoods.
brianwawok 8y ago
Capital costs seem rough. You can’t use a normal wall plug for a supercharger. How many amps do they pull, 200? You would need a new breaker box and the super charger hardware.... say 10k per house. Who is going to spend 10k to get a charger in their driveway strangers can stop by and pay you $20 to use? Uber works because people already own the car. Even EV people don’t already own a supercharger, they have a much simpler one.

octorian 8y ago

> Don't forget the Supercharger network For some reason, the majority of the "competition" does forget the supercharger network. Its the reason Tesla is a road-trip car, and capable of being your primary/only vehicle. Meanwhile all other EVs are nothing more than commuter cars. Maybe suitable for day-trips if you're really lucky. Tesla also acknowledges that you need these high-speed charging stations conveniently located along the highway. Not in the middle of town, and certainly not in the parking lot of a store you'd never spend more than 10 minutes at.