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What are the big drawbacks of joining a zombie startup? What should I look out for? I'm currently considering an offer from one that basically ticks every chec

by gdhbcc 8y ago

What are the big drawbacks of joining a zombie startup? What should I look out for? I'm currently considering an offer from one that basically ticks every checkmark on the list, so I'd love to know what is bad about it

officialchicken 8y ago
Unless you are a founder, look for product-market fit, growth and revenue. Think like an investor. Otherwise you will show up one day and are told, "We have to let everyone go". Or a permanent 50% salary cut with no notice the day before payroll.
jforman 8y ago
Worst case: it's a stressful waste of time that doesn't help your career. Stressful because the company is already in distress. Maybe the employees aren't aware, and maybe even the founders themselves are too naive to be aware, but the founders will be heavily under the gun to find a path to satisfy the hype they've built up. Or they'll check out if they don't even care to get back on the path. Waste of time because you won't learn anything in a flailing, failing company. Doesn't help your career because of the lack of learning and growth opportunities within a distressed company. Nobody will be impressed by the entry on your resume. Will likely hurt because of the opportunity cost, even. I disagree with the author that being an early employee is a solid path to make you wealthy — that only happens when a company experiences sharp growth after you join and finds liquidity at a much higher price than your option price. That happens but is rare. A better benefit is to jump-start your career and get experience you wouldn't be able to get at a BigCo. For that all you need is upward mobility in a well-performing startup. And you won't get that at a distressed company.
vinceguidry 8y ago
Seeing a friend of mine go through that rigmarole more than once, my observations are that zombie startups simply aren't nice places to work, it's always crunch time, you're always piling on tech debt, and wiping your ass with the equity grant will serve you better than waiting for it to vest. The culture can turn hostile in an instant, and toxic management hires can come out of nowhere and upset the apple cart just to make their company look good for the mirage of an aquihire. The founders don't give two shits about your career, mental health, or really anything, just meeting the next milestone.
intellectronica 8y ago
Basically you should make the same assumptions you would joining a project as a freelancer/contractor - if you make enough money and don't care about career development and job security and quite possibly difficult atmosphere then why not, a job is a job. But if you're joining with the assumption that you'll be able to develop your career, or that it will be a fun/friendly/familial environment, or that you're deferring making real money until you cash in your equity, it's extremely likely that you'll end up bitter and disappointed a few months/years later.
blihp 8y ago
All of the downside of a startup (long hours, fire fighting, stress... all of which never ends) without the upside (an exit which is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you put up with the rest of it for.) The way to make a zombie startup work for you is in a role where you're getting paid by the hour or deliverable that you can control (i.e. contracting or consulting) and absolutely do not go in as an employee if you have a choice.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  Yeah I think the downside elements you mentioned are important and it's a significant factor. Add to this the one year cliff plus one quarter before any options vest and even then there's a good possibility you will leave them on the table b/c you don't have the money to buy them when you leave.
bambataa 8y ago
Do you have a clear idea of what their product is and who their customers are? If they’ve been going for X years and they don’t have a lot to show for it then that’s a major red flag for me.
reality_czech 8y ago
* The health plan is really expensive, since your co-workers' body parts keep falling off. * The only thing the cafeteria serves is BRAAAAAAINS. * Your noncompete agreement is still valid even after you die. Aside from that, it's pretty similar to working at Google.

by gdhbcc 8y ago

officialchicken 8y ago

Unless you are a founder, look for product-market fit, growth and revenue. Think like an investor. Otherwise you will show up one day and are told, "We have to let everyone go". Or a permanent 50% salary cut with no notice the day before payroll.

jforman 8y ago

Worst case: it's a stressful waste of time that doesn't help your career. Stressful because the company is already in distress. Maybe the employees aren't aware, and maybe even the founders themselves are too naive to be aware, but the founders will be heavily under the gun to find a path to satisfy the hype they've built up. Or they'll check out if they don't even care to get back on the path. Waste of time because you won't learn anything in a flailing, failing company. Doesn't help your career because of the lack of learning and growth opportunities within a distressed company. Nobody will be impressed by the entry on your resume. Will likely hurt because of the opportunity cost, even. I disagree with the author that being an early employee is a solid path to make you wealthy — that only happens when a company experiences sharp growth after you join and finds liquidity at a much higher price than your option price. That happens but is rare. A better benefit is to jump-start your career and get experience you wouldn't be able to get at a BigCo. For that all you need is upward mobility in a well-performing startup. And you won't get that at a distressed company.

vinceguidry 8y ago

Seeing a friend of mine go through that rigmarole more than once, my observations are that zombie startups simply aren't nice places to work, it's always crunch time, you're always piling on tech debt, and wiping your ass with the equity grant will serve you better than waiting for it to vest. The culture can turn hostile in an instant, and toxic management hires can come out of nowhere and upset the apple cart just to make their company look good for the mirage of an aquihire. The founders don't give two shits about your career, mental health, or really anything, just meeting the next milestone.

intellectronica 8y ago

Basically you should make the same assumptions you would joining a project as a freelancer/contractor - if you make enough money and don't care about career development and job security and quite possibly difficult atmosphere then why not, a job is a job. But if you're joining with the assumption that you'll be able to develop your career, or that it will be a fun/friendly/familial environment, or that you're deferring making real money until you cash in your equity, it's extremely likely that you'll end up bitter and disappointed a few months/years later.

blihp 8y ago

All of the downside of a startup (long hours, fire fighting, stress... all of which never ends) without the upside (an exit which is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you put up with the rest of it for.) The way to make a zombie startup work for you is in a role where you're getting paid by the hour or deliverable that you can control (i.e. contracting or consulting) and absolutely do not go in as an employee if you have a choice.

bogomipz 8y ago
Yeah I think the downside elements you mentioned are important and it's a significant factor. Add to this the one year cliff plus one quarter before any options vest and even then there's a good possibility you will leave them on the table b/c you don't have the money to buy them when you leave.

bambataa 8y ago

Do you have a clear idea of what their product is and who their customers are? If they’ve been going for X years and they don’t have a lot to show for it then that’s a major red flag for me.

reality_czech 8y ago

* The health plan is really expensive, since your co-workers' body parts keep falling off. * The only thing the cafeteria serves is BRAAAAAAINS. * Your noncompete agreement is still valid even after you die. Aside from that, it's pretty similar to working at Google.