3 ms·

#6 Have a crystal ball that can predict the future. Since the success of a startup is often based on unpredictable changes in markets, technology, or world even

by ttul 8y ago

#6 Have a crystal ball that can predict the future. Since the success of a startup is often based on unpredictable changes in markets, technology, or world events, even if you follow all of the other steps here to avoid a zombie startup, you may end up in one. And you may avoid a startup that was really onto something. Okay, so I am being a little satirical. But honestly, if it was so easy to pick winners, VCs would invest in far fewer companies. As an individual trying to pick the winner, you have close to zero probability of being right.

__exit__ 8y ago
Agreed. Until you do not enter a startup, it's hard to know how it actually works. During interviews and preliminary hiring-talks they may sell the pitch as if everything were wonderful, but potentially, the unfortunate reality could be that things are not that nice.
- ummonk 8y ago
  And then you lose what, a few months of your time? Certainly a significant investment but hardly the end of the world.
  - __exit__ 8y ago
    Losing a few months once in a while may be bearable, and even worthwhile as a positive experience towards a more selective criteria regarding future workplaces. However, I would argue that depending on one's need and situation, time is gold, and jumping from one zombie startup to another continuously may not be feasible.
  - wsy 8y ago
    It hurts your CV, too. You can do this once, but if you stay for only a few months at 3 startups in a row, I probably wouldn't hire you anymore. The risk is too high that you would leave the 4th startup as well.
    - DBCerigo 8y ago
      I haven't found that this has hurt my CV, or more specifically my ability to get hired by subsequent startups, at all, in fact the larger amount and larger variety of my proven expertise from working at multiple startups for relatively short periods seems to have only increased my ability to land jobs. And further, the varied experience I got at them has very quickly removed the ross-tinted view of the startup world and taught me hugely on what to look for and what to watch out for. Disclaimer being that in each instance I joined in good faith, worked hard and added value to the company quickly (at least in the companies eyes), did my best to pragmatically resolve any major issue that happen to arise, and left once those resolutions reached a roadblock and that I felt I had made all reasonable attempts to fix things. On reflection it was always just a case of losing faith in the leadership of the company. My advice to anyone starting out would be to do your best due diligence (read about it) before joining, but knowing that you'll only get the real workings of place from actually working in it, and especially if you are inexperienced you will have likely overlooked some subsequently obvious warning signs (I sure know I did in the past!). Throw yourself into it 100%, get established, then assess the situation. Always do your best to give everything the benefit of the doubt, and be open to being wrong, until you really just have to admit that you're right (or in reality you _think_ you're right), then move on if you have to in the most considerate way possible. Future founders/leadership that I would want work with would (hopefully) understand my decision-making at those times, and would be confident enough that they could instil the motivation in me to continue to follow them long term.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ummonk 8y ago
Well if you do your due diligence, look for startups which offer proper equity to employees (which is sadly very rare), you have an advantage over VCs. You get the option to quit or continue working at the company and earn the rest of your invested stock. The trick is to shop around, evaluating each startup while you work for it, until you find one that has hit the jackpot and made your unversed equity very valuable.
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  Buying 10 lottery tickets instead of 1 makes no practical difference to the odds of winning. Of course every VC, CEO, and founder will say otherwise, since they're incentivized to get people excited about their investment. VCs also place more bets in a single year than the number of startups anyone could hope to work at in a lifetime.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    But you can improve your expected returns if you get to double down on one of your lottery tickets when you know it has a high chance of winning. You invest little time in the startups that seem likely to be unsuccessful, and a lot more time in the startup that is on a path to success.
  - ttul 8y ago
    And this is why most people should just get a high paying engineering job and invest whatever excess into an angel fund.

by ttul 8y ago

__exit__ 8y ago

Agreed. Until you do not enter a startup, it's hard to know how it actually works. During interviews and preliminary hiring-talks they may sell the pitch as if everything were wonderful, but potentially, the unfortunate reality could be that things are not that nice.

ummonk 8y ago
And then you lose what, a few months of your time? Certainly a significant investment but hardly the end of the world.
- __exit__ 8y ago
  Losing a few months once in a while may be bearable, and even worthwhile as a positive experience towards a more selective criteria regarding future workplaces. However, I would argue that depending on one's need and situation, time is gold, and jumping from one zombie startup to another continuously may not be feasible.
- wsy 8y ago
  It hurts your CV, too. You can do this once, but if you stay for only a few months at 3 startups in a row, I probably wouldn't hire you anymore. The risk is too high that you would leave the 4th startup as well.
  - DBCerigo 8y ago
    I haven't found that this has hurt my CV, or more specifically my ability to get hired by subsequent startups, at all, in fact the larger amount and larger variety of my proven expertise from working at multiple startups for relatively short periods seems to have only increased my ability to land jobs. And further, the varied experience I got at them has very quickly removed the ross-tinted view of the startup world and taught me hugely on what to look for and what to watch out for. Disclaimer being that in each instance I joined in good faith, worked hard and added value to the company quickly (at least in the companies eyes), did my best to pragmatically resolve any major issue that happen to arise, and left once those resolutions reached a roadblock and that I felt I had made all reasonable attempts to fix things. On reflection it was always just a case of losing faith in the leadership of the company. My advice to anyone starting out would be to do your best due diligence (read about it) before joining, but knowing that you'll only get the real workings of place from actually working in it, and especially if you are inexperienced you will have likely overlooked some subsequently obvious warning signs (I sure know I did in the past!). Throw yourself into it 100%, get established, then assess the situation. Always do your best to give everything the benefit of the doubt, and be open to being wrong, until you really just have to admit that you're right (or in reality you _think_ you're right), then move on if you have to in the most considerate way possible. Future founders/leadership that I would want work with would (hopefully) understand my decision-making at those times, and would be confident enough that they could instil the motivation in me to continue to follow them long term.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ummonk 8y ago

Well if you do your due diligence, look for startups which offer proper equity to employees (which is sadly very rare), you have an advantage over VCs. You get the option to quit or continue working at the company and earn the rest of your invested stock. The trick is to shop around, evaluating each startup while you work for it, until you find one that has hit the jackpot and made your unversed equity very valuable.

simplecomplex 8y ago
Buying 10 lottery tickets instead of 1 makes no practical difference to the odds of winning. Of course every VC, CEO, and founder will say otherwise, since they're incentivized to get people excited about their investment. VCs also place more bets in a single year than the number of startups anyone could hope to work at in a lifetime.
- ummonk 8y ago
  But you can improve your expected returns if you get to double down on one of your lottery tickets when you know it has a high chance of winning. You invest little time in the startups that seem likely to be unsuccessful, and a lot more time in the startup that is on a path to success.
- ttul 8y ago
  And this is why most people should just get a high paying engineering job and invest whatever excess into an angel fund.