8 ms·

How about police just not use SWAT teams so much? It's ridiculous that you can get someone "swatted" with mere heresay; but SWAT teams have swelled in number an

How about police just not use SWAT teams so much? It's ridiculous that you can get someone "swatted" with mere heresay; but SWAT teams have swelled in number and are now being used for far more than what they were originally intended. SWAT teams raiding the wrong homes, shooting family dogs, killing innocent people, etc...are all a symptom of a larger problem, as is this. You shouldn't have to sign up for anything to not get attacked by a SWAT team, how absolutely absurd. A list does not solve the deeper issue.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Reelin 8y ago
But didn't you know? We're all in imminent danger from... uhh... terrorists! And drugs! Think of the children, donate to your local SWAT team today! They need more funding for surplus military equipment after all. I just love this photo of the MRAP vehicle the Lynnwood SWAT team has. Really makes me feel safer. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-washington-state-got-military-hardware-even-under-obama-era-restrictions/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-wa... Edit: For those not familiar with Washington, Lynnwood is a kind of dense suburb north of Seattle. Not really where I'd expect to need a military vehicle, but you never know I guess...
- gingerbread-man 8y ago
  Former cop here: many departments get those vehicles from the DOD for free. (They bought thousands of them to protect troops in Iraq+Afghanistan from IEDs.) Everyone knows MRAPs weren't designed for law enforcement, but you just can't beat that price.
  - Pfhreak 8y ago
    Yes, you can. Do not take them. If you must take them, dispose of them.
  - Reelin 8y ago
    Fair enough, free is a pretty good price after all. But if anything, I honestly feel less safe knowing that the police department next door to me has that in their possession. Perhaps that's unfounded, but to me it really seems like a small part of a much larger and very concerning trend. Edit: Unfortunately I can't track down a photo, but I seem to remember them having it out when they closed down Highway 99 for that shooting about a year ago. It's quite surreal seeing one of those blocking off a local highway, as though they're expecting to encounter IEDs or heavily armed enemy combatants in the middle of the city.
    - webkike 8y ago
      You should expect to feel less safe when a police force has them: those vehicles and weapons are designed to protect the user at the possible expense of the life of literally everybody else
  - kartan 8y ago
    > you just can't beat that price That is interesting information. What is the limit? Free air to air missiles? The argument should not be that it is pricey but that it is dangerous.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    Those departments do need to pay for modifications, upkeep and training. Free still seems too expensive to justify.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  I can see both sides of this but not sure what the solution is. Imagine there is a real threat and 2 cops show up in a squad car instead of the swat team. By the time swat arrives everyone is dead and the cops get blamed once again. “It took them 25 minutes to get out there!! What are we paying them to do, eat donuts?!” As for militarization vs peace keeping I can also understand both sides of the argument. Imagine you are a cop and while 95% of th situations you encounter are harmless, the other 5% could kill you. Would you not rather have the best equipment possible for your own protection? Would you listen to some asshole tell you “that’s the inherent risk of the job so deal with it”? No, you wouldn’t. I really dislike how people paint issues as black and white, right and wrong and quickly come up with some reasoning for their argument without ever considering all angles. The world and the issues we deal with are a lot more complicated than people make them out to be. I know humans compartmentalize as a flight or fight response but we need to give rational thought to every issue and not jump to conclusions.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Sure, call the swat team and have them surround the area quickly. But don't just run in with guns blazing. That makes absolutely no sense.
- loser777 8y ago
  nit: I believe it's _Lynnwood_, Washington. Lynwood seems to be more commonly known as the city in Los Angeles County, or Weird Al's _Straight_ _Outta_ _Lynwood_.
  - Reelin 8y ago
    Whoops, fixed. That's... kind of weird that the one in California varies by a single letter. Spell check was never going to save me on this one.
drdrey 8y ago
It's definitely possible, since AFAIK swatting does not happen in Europe
gumby 8y ago
The whole militarization of the police has resonated dreadfully with the ascension and worship of the military. And the US now has "law enforcement" instead of "peace officers". The incentives have been completely reversed.
eksemplar 8y ago
I think the way they use swat teams is insane. I mean, I’m not American, but the fact that American police will send their swat team to storm a house that they have no idea what is going on in is completely insane. You never rush a house, you assess the situation and the act accordingly. Receiving an anonymous phone call is not assessing the situation. It’s almost like they are all guns no brains, and it’s incredibly dangerous. Rushing into an unknown situation is just incredibly stupid on all accounts. The fact they haven’t learned the lesson by now though, speaks volumes, and I don’t think registering for anti-swatting is learning the lesson at all.
gingerbread-man 8y ago
Former cop here: I think the biggest misconception about SWAT teams is that what makes them different is that they carry rifles instead of handguns. (In fact, in most departments every officer carries a rifle in his/her patrol car.) A SWAT team is a group of officers who train as a team for high-risk situations like drug warrants and, yes, hostage situations. By contrast, most other officers are trained to respond solo or in pairs, and often don't spend nearly as much time practicing things like room clearance. If the police are going to break down your door, you want the best-trained most experienced officers doing it. The SWAT guys are calmer, more professional, and less likely to pull the trigger when startled.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  If the police are going to break down your door But I don't, in general, want the police to break down my door at all since they are almost certainly at the wrong address. And there's a pretty good chance that they'll shoot my dog (who will be barking menacingly from the stairs) even if they don't shoot me.
- hobls 8y ago
  I’m sure that’s true somewhere like NYC, and maybe it’s even true in Seattle, but it appears to be distinctly less true in smaller towns. In small town America it’s literally just the same cops playing army dress up.
  - gingerbread-man 8y ago
    It depends on how large the town is. Even in medium-sized cities (pop. <1M), it's rare to have a dedicated full-time tactical team. Usually it's a group of 6-20 patrol officers who get a few days each month to train together for various scenarios.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      The question is what training they get. I bet at least in some areas it's a lot about cool weapons and how to run into a building, not about deescalation. I remember years ago there was an incident in Northern Virginia where they went after a few guys who were betting on football http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011205936.html?noredirect=on http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01.... So the cops went in with a swat team and ended up shooting one guy. No weapons were on site and nobody there had a criminal history. The cops just went in with full force and when somebody made a wrong move they shot him. Same for for the mayor of Berwyn Heights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor.... Excessive force from start without even trying to solve it peacefully. Stuff like this simply shouldn't happen. It seems a lot of swat teams only focus on using force.
tootahe45 8y ago
From the few instances I've seen they aren't usually SWAT teams, 'swatting' was just the first term for it which got popular.
- pas 8y ago
  They are LEOs in heavy-duty combat gear, no? It's almost guaranteed that they usually lack the special weapons and tactics training.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Reelin 8y ago

But didn't you know? We're all in imminent danger from... uhh... terrorists! And drugs! Think of the children, donate to your local SWAT team today! They need more funding for surplus military equipment after all. I just love this photo of the MRAP vehicle the Lynnwood SWAT team has. Really makes me feel safer. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-washington-state-got-military-hardware-even-under-obama-era-restrictions/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-wa... Edit: For those not familiar with Washington, Lynnwood is a kind of dense suburb north of Seattle. Not really where I'd expect to need a military vehicle, but you never know I guess...

gingerbread-man 8y ago
Former cop here: many departments get those vehicles from the DOD for free. (They bought thousands of them to protect troops in Iraq+Afghanistan from IEDs.) Everyone knows MRAPs weren't designed for law enforcement, but you just can't beat that price.
- Pfhreak 8y ago
  Yes, you can. Do not take them. If you must take them, dispose of them.
- Reelin 8y ago
  Fair enough, free is a pretty good price after all. But if anything, I honestly feel less safe knowing that the police department next door to me has that in their possession. Perhaps that's unfounded, but to me it really seems like a small part of a much larger and very concerning trend. Edit: Unfortunately I can't track down a photo, but I seem to remember them having it out when they closed down Highway 99 for that shooting about a year ago. It's quite surreal seeing one of those blocking off a local highway, as though they're expecting to encounter IEDs or heavily armed enemy combatants in the middle of the city.
  - webkike 8y ago
    You should expect to feel less safe when a police force has them: those vehicles and weapons are designed to protect the user at the possible expense of the life of literally everybody else
- kartan 8y ago
  > you just can't beat that price That is interesting information. What is the limit? Free air to air missiles? The argument should not be that it is pricey but that it is dangerous.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  Those departments do need to pay for modifications, upkeep and training. Free still seems too expensive to justify.
mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
I can see both sides of this but not sure what the solution is. Imagine there is a real threat and 2 cops show up in a squad car instead of the swat team. By the time swat arrives everyone is dead and the cops get blamed once again. “It took them 25 minutes to get out there!! What are we paying them to do, eat donuts?!” As for militarization vs peace keeping I can also understand both sides of the argument. Imagine you are a cop and while 95% of th situations you encounter are harmless, the other 5% could kill you. Would you not rather have the best equipment possible for your own protection? Would you listen to some asshole tell you “that’s the inherent risk of the job so deal with it”? No, you wouldn’t. I really dislike how people paint issues as black and white, right and wrong and quickly come up with some reasoning for their argument without ever considering all angles. The world and the issues we deal with are a lot more complicated than people make them out to be. I know humans compartmentalize as a flight or fight response but we need to give rational thought to every issue and not jump to conclusions.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Sure, call the swat team and have them surround the area quickly. But don't just run in with guns blazing. That makes absolutely no sense.
loser777 8y ago
nit: I believe it's _Lynnwood_, Washington. Lynwood seems to be more commonly known as the city in Los Angeles County, or Weird Al's _Straight_ _Outta_ _Lynwood_.
- Reelin 8y ago
  Whoops, fixed. That's... kind of weird that the one in California varies by a single letter. Spell check was never going to save me on this one.

drdrey 8y ago

It's definitely possible, since AFAIK swatting does not happen in Europe

gumby 8y ago

The whole militarization of the police has resonated dreadfully with the ascension and worship of the military. And the US now has "law enforcement" instead of "peace officers". The incentives have been completely reversed.

eksemplar 8y ago

I think the way they use swat teams is insane. I mean, I’m not American, but the fact that American police will send their swat team to storm a house that they have no idea what is going on in is completely insane. You never rush a house, you assess the situation and the act accordingly. Receiving an anonymous phone call is not assessing the situation. It’s almost like they are all guns no brains, and it’s incredibly dangerous. Rushing into an unknown situation is just incredibly stupid on all accounts. The fact they haven’t learned the lesson by now though, speaks volumes, and I don’t think registering for anti-swatting is learning the lesson at all.

gingerbread-man 8y ago

Former cop here: I think the biggest misconception about SWAT teams is that what makes them different is that they carry rifles instead of handguns. (In fact, in most departments every officer carries a rifle in his/her patrol car.) A SWAT team is a group of officers who train as a team for high-risk situations like drug warrants and, yes, hostage situations. By contrast, most other officers are trained to respond solo or in pairs, and often don't spend nearly as much time practicing things like room clearance. If the police are going to break down your door, you want the best-trained most experienced officers doing it. The SWAT guys are calmer, more professional, and less likely to pull the trigger when startled.

Johnny555 8y ago
If the police are going to break down your door But I don't, in general, want the police to break down my door at all since they are almost certainly at the wrong address. And there's a pretty good chance that they'll shoot my dog (who will be barking menacingly from the stairs) even if they don't shoot me.
hobls 8y ago
I’m sure that’s true somewhere like NYC, and maybe it’s even true in Seattle, but it appears to be distinctly less true in smaller towns. In small town America it’s literally just the same cops playing army dress up.
- gingerbread-man 8y ago
  It depends on how large the town is. Even in medium-sized cities (pop. <1M), it's rare to have a dedicated full-time tactical team. Usually it's a group of 6-20 patrol officers who get a few days each month to train together for various scenarios.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    The question is what training they get. I bet at least in some areas it's a lot about cool weapons and how to run into a building, not about deescalation. I remember years ago there was an incident in Northern Virginia where they went after a few guys who were betting on football http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011205936.html?noredirect=on http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01.... So the cops went in with a swat team and ended up shooting one guy. No weapons were on site and nobody there had a criminal history. The cops just went in with full force and when somebody made a wrong move they shot him. Same for for the mayor of Berwyn Heights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor.... Excessive force from start without even trying to solve it peacefully. Stuff like this simply shouldn't happen. It seems a lot of swat teams only focus on using force.

tootahe45 8y ago

From the few instances I've seen they aren't usually SWAT teams, 'swatting' was just the first term for it which got popular.

pas 8y ago
They are LEOs in heavy-duty combat gear, no? It's almost guaranteed that they usually lack the special weapons and tactics training.