9 ms·
Police to Seattle’s techies, streamers: Sign up for our anti-swatting service
- hyperrail 8y agoSome more discussion, including sign-up instructions at the end: https://www.geekwire.com/2018/seattle-police-try-new-tactic-give-game-streamers-others-defense-swatting-pranks/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/seattle-police-try-new-tactic-...
- samontar 8y agoInb4 someone registers before actually shooting a family. Doesn’t look like any proof is required.
- partiallypro 8y agoHow about police just not use SWAT teams so much? It's ridiculous that you can get someone "swatted" with mere heresay; but SWAT teams have swelled in number and are now being used for far more than what they were originally intended. SWAT teams raiding the wrong homes, shooting family dogs, killing innocent people, etc...are all a symptom of a larger problem, as is this. You shouldn't have to sign up for anything to not get attacked by a SWAT team, how absolutely absurd. A list does not solve the deeper issue.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Reelin 8y agoBut didn't you know? We're all in imminent danger from... uhh... terrorists! And drugs! Think of the children, donate to your local SWAT team today! They need more funding for surplus military equipment after all. I just love this photo of the MRAP vehicle the Lynnwood SWAT team has. Really makes me feel safer. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-washington-state-got-military-hardware-even-under-obama-era-restrictions/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-in-wa... Edit: For those not familiar with Washington, Lynnwood is a kind of dense suburb north of Seattle. Not really where I'd expect to need a military vehicle, but you never know I guess...
- gingerbread-man 8y agoFormer cop here: many departments get those vehicles from the DOD for free. (They bought thousands of them to protect troops in Iraq+Afghanistan from IEDs.) Everyone knows MRAPs weren't designed for law enforcement, but you just can't beat that price.
- Pfhreak 8y agoYes, you can. Do not take them. If you must take them, dispose of them.
- Reelin 8y agoFair enough, free is a pretty good price after all. But if anything, I honestly feel less safe knowing that the police department next door to me has that in their possession. Perhaps that's unfounded, but to me it really seems like a small part of a much larger and very concerning trend. Edit: Unfortunately I can't track down a photo, but I seem to remember them having it out when they closed down Highway 99 for that shooting about a year ago. It's quite surreal seeing one of those blocking off a local highway, as though they're expecting to encounter IEDs or heavily armed enemy combatants in the middle of the city.
- webkike 8y agoYou should expect to feel less safe when a police force has them: those vehicles and weapons are designed to protect the user at the possible expense of the life of literally everybody else
- kartan 8y ago> you just can't beat that price That is interesting information. What is the limit? Free air to air missiles? The argument should not be that it is pricey but that it is dangerous.
- boomboomsubban 8y agoThose departments do need to pay for modifications, upkeep and training. Free still seems too expensive to justify.
- drdrey 8y agoIt's definitely possible, since AFAIK swatting does not happen in Europe
- gumby 8y agoThe whole militarization of the police has resonated dreadfully with the ascension and worship of the military. And the US now has "law enforcement" instead of "peace officers". The incentives have been completely reversed.
- eksemplar 8y agoI think the way they use swat teams is insane. I mean, I’m not American, but the fact that American police will send their swat team to storm a house that they have no idea what is going on in is completely insane. You never rush a house, you assess the situation and the act accordingly. Receiving an anonymous phone call is not assessing the situation. It’s almost like they are all guns no brains, and it’s incredibly dangerous. Rushing into an unknown situation is just incredibly stupid on all accounts. The fact they haven’t learned the lesson by now though, speaks volumes, and I don’t think registering for anti-swatting is learning the lesson at all.
- gingerbread-man 8y agoFormer cop here: I think the biggest misconception about SWAT teams is that what makes them different is that they carry rifles instead of handguns. (In fact, in most departments every officer carries a rifle in his/her patrol car.) A SWAT team is a group of officers who train as a team for high-risk situations like drug warrants and, yes, hostage situations. By contrast, most other officers are trained to respond solo or in pairs, and often don't spend nearly as much time practicing things like room clearance. If the police are going to break down your door, you want the best-trained most experienced officers doing it. The SWAT guys are calmer, more professional, and less likely to pull the trigger when startled.
- Johnny555 8y agoIf the police are going to break down your door But I don't, in general, want the police to break down my door at all since they are almost certainly at the wrong address. And there's a pretty good chance that they'll shoot my dog (who will be barking menacingly from the stairs) even if they don't shoot me.
- hobls 8y agoI’m sure that’s true somewhere like NYC, and maybe it’s even true in Seattle, but it appears to be distinctly less true in smaller towns. In small town America it’s literally just the same cops playing army dress up.
- gingerbread-man 8y agoIt depends on how large the town is. Even in medium-sized cities (pop. <1M), it's rare to have a dedicated full-time tactical team. Usually it's a group of 6-20 patrol officers who get a few days each month to train together for various scenarios.
- maxxxxx 8y agoThe question is what training they get. I bet at least in some areas it's a lot about cool weapons and how to run into a building, not about deescalation. I remember years ago there was an incident in Northern Virginia where they went after a few guys who were betting on football http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011205936.html?noredirect=on http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01.... So the cops went in with a swat team and ended up shooting one guy. No weapons were on site and nobody there had a criminal history. The cops just went in with full force and when somebody made a wrong move they shot him. Same for for the mayor of Berwyn Heights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor.... Excessive force from start without even trying to solve it peacefully. Stuff like this simply shouldn't happen. It seems a lot of swat teams only focus on using force.
- tootahe45 8y agoFrom the few instances I've seen they aren't usually SWAT teams, 'swatting' was just the first term for it which got popular.
- pas 8y agoThey are LEOs in heavy-duty combat gear, no? It's almost guaranteed that they usually lack the special weapons and tactics training.
- bpanon 8y agoThe "Please don't shoot" list
- scarface74 8y agoCan I use it for - My Family is Black in a mostly White neighborhood, if a neighbor calls the police about “suspicious” people entering my house, it’s probably just my family.
- rsj_hn 8y agoI am sorry to hear that. Is your neighborhood wealthy? I'm in SF, and there are some neighborhoods (Pacific Heights) where your risk of getting the cops called at you is pretty high just by walking around at night if one of the nosy neighbors doesn't recognize you. I assume being black would increase those odds. I was almost swatted once -- there was a knock on my door "Police! Open up!" and when I came to the door the police said they heard reports of gunshots from my apartment. What?? I let them in, they looked around -- I think it was an ex-gf but I can't prove it. They started asking me if I just moved in (I had a few months before). I tried to ask them who reported it, but they wouldn't say. I'm just glad they didn't bust down the door guns blazing. It's a scary world out there.
- scarface74 8y agoThe neighborhood isn’t wealthy by California standards, but the county is the wealthiest in the state, and it was an infamous “Sundown Town” in the South as late as the 80s. But as the metro area has grown and an influx of professionals and younger people have moved in, the demographics are slowly changing. It’s mostly the older crowd who have been here for decades that have problems. My wife and I don’t get looked at too strangely, but my (step)son who is tall and big gets suspicious looks from older adults even though he grew up in the burbs all of his life and his circle of friends look like the cast of a CW show. My son often hangs out with friends from his school. Their parents always love him. He only gets strange looks from the grandparents occasionally.
- jedberg 8y ago> I'm in SF, and there are some neighborhoods (Pacific Heights) where your risk of getting the cops called at you is pretty high just by walking around at night if one of the nosy neighbors doesn't recognize you. I assume being black would increase those odds. If you really want to see blatant racism, sign up for nextdoor.com. My Cupertino neighbors are constantly posting about a "suspicious person", and when you press them as to why the person is suspicious, it always boils down to, "because they're black". Usually they don't outright say it, they just imply it, but sometimes they do say it outright.
- Reelin 8y agoSo... why don't we fix the problem at its source by trying to better assess the reliability of a lone phone call before barging in guns blazing as though it was a war zone? Before: "We got a single phone call guys, this is bulletproof. No need to actually assess the situation or anything, no one would ever lie to us - we're the authorities after all." Now: "Not in the database - looks like we're good to shoot on sight!" Obviously I exaggerate, and hopefully things don't usually proceed the way they did in Kansas (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/gamers-swatting-charges.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/gamers-swatting-charge...). But I really have to wonder about the reasoning here. In all seriousness, which of the below is a more frequent occurrence? * A hostage (or similar) situation deserving of this sort of response, but with no externally visible indications - just a single phone call. * "Prank" calls of this sort. I don't actually know the answer, but I strongly suspect the latter by a very large margin.
- a_t48 8y agoThis has to be balanced by the need for fast responses when there is an actual real emergency. Heads will roll if the authorities come slowly or not at all for a real hostage situation.
- maxxxxx 8y agoIn a real hostage situation you won't just rush in with full force. Most of the times the situation gets resolved with long negotiations wearing the hostage taker down.
- vosper 8y agoI don't think the best outcomes for hostage situations are quick responses by heavily armed assault teams? I'm pretty sure the playbook is something like surrounding and controlling the area, establishing communications, and trying to work out a peaceful outcome. Whilst planning for an alternative option.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y agoI am pretty sure thing are the way they are for a good reason that you and I have no insight to. Otherwise they wouldn’t be this way. Cops are not stupid and neither are the people running those teams. I doubt it gives them any pleasure responding to potentially deadly situations and putting their own lives at risk. Cops have families too. Perhaps we need to ask someone who knows better instead of speculating.
- edoceo 8y agoI'm moving back to Oakland
- edoceo 8y agoDownvoted? Because SPD scares me more than OPD?
- BslSJDIz1gqWxXq 8y agoStreamers like Ice Poseidon and Sam Pepper could benefit from such a service, though unfortunately they aren't based in Seattle.
- artellectual 8y agoHow is this different from paying the mafia protection money? This is what mafias do they extort businesses for money to not be bothered by them and other gang members.
- United857 8y agoOne idea might be to have some way to register a 'code word' with the police/911 dispatch for a given address/phone in advance. If the code word is spoken, that gives extra signal that it's a genuine threat. In practice, not sure if the IT of most departments is sophisticated enough, but in theory that might help.
- meritt 8y agoPeople are extremely unlikely to remember a code word they setup years ago and now must recall during a high-stress emergency.
- King-Aaron 8y agoSooooo can you set up a meth lab, then add yourself to the list?
- user111233 8y agoIt literally says in the article that they will not ignore calls to locations on the list and they will only keep the information in mind when responding.
- King-Aaron 8y agoAware of that, however I don't see how it can work in any situation to be honest. A ) I have an illegal thing in my house, but I register for "please dont shoot me etc". Party B calls the police, door is still likely to be kicked in. B ) I don't have an illegal thing in my house, I register for "please dont shoot me etc". Party B calls the police, door is still likely to be kicked in. And at what point does it become meaningless if the majority of residential addresses are on the list?
- SrslyJosh 8y agoFeels like a trap.
- newsDerp 8y agoHoly shit. We're fucking doomed. The SWAT team just can't promise that it won't treat every phone call like a life and death situation. Gee. Maybe the SWAT team should only barge in after regular cops are confirmed to have made contact with a genuine emergency, that has been validated and confirmed as unresolvable by other means? What if the SWAT team just didn't react to phone calls? What if other criteria were required to be met, before dumping a pile of battering rams and automatic weapons and snipers and helicopters onto a problem? Maybe just expose regular police to emergency calls first? Maybe it's not Die Hard? Maybe Hans Gruber isn't taking hostages? Imagine that.
- Tyrannosaur 8y agoWhat a racket. There is a problem with people spoofing voip phone calls calling in hoaxes and the best they can come up with to fix it is "oh pay for this protection service and we will send a normal police response instead of a murderous one." WHAT?? Why not "oh this phone call has weird information and is untrackable. That's weird and abnormal, almost like this is a hoax. Let's go check assuming it is a hoax."