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Doesn’t this simply encourage extension authors to request as many permissions as possible from the outset? Most users just click yes to all of these things. T

Doesn’t this simply encourage extension authors to request as many permissions as possible from the outset? Most users just click yes to all of these things. Those who would skip installing an extension because of this are an extreme minority.

danShumway 8y ago
The solution to that is to only request extensions when they're needed, and to give users prominent options to grant access "only once" or to revoke access (both of which should be undetectable from extensions without extra work). This isn't perfect, but it comes with some advantages. It's more work for an extension author to check for the permissions than to just write their application logic normally. This means that the lazy authors start coding their apps correctly (just try to do the thing and let the OS handle asking for permission), and only the malicious authors are left nagging for permissions early. If you have more legitimate than malicious app on your platform, you can at least sort of train some users to think what the malicious apps are doing is weird. If most of your apps don't ask for permissions up front, then the ones who do start to look weirder. If I go to a website, and a permission pops up asking to access my webcam, and I didn't do something to make that permission pop up... that is really weird and I'm going to click 'no'. And when I click no, if the website wants to be cranky about it, they have to write extra code to hide whatever content is already loaded and pop up a dialog complaining. If I click OK and then immediately click a button and revoke that permission, they need to have even more code continually running in the background to detect it. Again, it's not hard for a malicious extension/app to do that, it's just that only the malicious extensions/apps are going to do that. So it becomes easier to educate users with simple rules like, "if a site asks for a permission that's unrelated to what you're doing, always say no." It also becomes easier for users who are already careful about permissions to be paranoid and grant them carefully, because they don't have to decide up-front whether the app is worth installing -- they can decide later on whether or not they trust it to have access to something. Part of having fine-grained permissions is in getting rid of what I call the Terms of Service version, where you just stick anything you might ever want inside of a manifest and then users either accept everything or the app doesn't install.
- seanwilson 8y ago
  > Again, it's not hard for a malicious extension/app to do that, it's just that only the malicious extensions/apps are going to do that. So it becomes easier to educate users with simple rules like, "if a site asks for a permission that's unrelated to what you're doing, always say no." Are you sure it's this simple? Adblockers and password managers for example require wide ranging permissions to work and there's plenty of popular extensions in the same situation.
  - Ajedi32 8y ago
    Password managers don't need extensive permissions, they just need a built-in autofill API. Similarly, you could implement a basic adblocker via a declarative content blocking API. Fine-grained permissions will allow for this sort of thing.
    - seanwilson 8y ago
      Does that cover the functionality of most popular extensions though? When there's an API that matches up with the purpose of the extension, it's more straightforward. I would have thought the popularity of those particular example extensions is what partially drove the creation of those APIs as well.
      - Ajedi32 8y ago
        The APIs I mentioned in my previous comment don't exist yet. My point is that Google is going to need to _build_ APIs to fulfill all of the most common use cases (including those ones) in order to succeed in their goal of making extension permissions more fine-grained. So yes, the functionality of most popular extensions will be covered by the new APIs, because Google will designing the new APIs with those popular extensions in mind.
kevingadd 8y ago
It does, and many extensions on the store already request huge blanket permission sets they don't need. The UI flow for requesting a new permission with an update is awful to the point that many users never even notice it, so you really should just request every possible permission when you first release your extension. They need to fix the UX here and it doesn't seem like they intend to.
Vinnl 8y ago
I think most vigilante extensions arise from malicious players buying popular extensions and then uploading nefarious new versions. In other words, the original authors do not necessarily have incentive to request as many permissions as possible.

danShumway 8y ago

The solution to that is to only request extensions when they're needed, and to give users prominent options to grant access "only once" or to revoke access (both of which should be undetectable from extensions without extra work). This isn't perfect, but it comes with some advantages. It's more work for an extension author to check for the permissions than to just write their application logic normally. This means that the lazy authors start coding their apps correctly (just try to do the thing and let the OS handle asking for permission), and only the malicious authors are left nagging for permissions early. If you have more legitimate than malicious app on your platform, you can at least sort of train some users to think what the malicious apps are doing is weird. If most of your apps don't ask for permissions up front, then the ones who do start to look weirder. If I go to a website, and a permission pops up asking to access my webcam, and I didn't do something to make that permission pop up... that is really weird and I'm going to click 'no'. And when I click no, if the website wants to be cranky about it, they have to write extra code to hide whatever content is already loaded and pop up a dialog complaining. If I click OK and then immediately click a button and revoke that permission, they need to have even more code continually running in the background to detect it. Again, it's not hard for a malicious extension/app to do that, it's just that only the malicious extensions/apps are going to do that. So it becomes easier to educate users with simple rules like, "if a site asks for a permission that's unrelated to what you're doing, always say no." It also becomes easier for users who are already careful about permissions to be paranoid and grant them carefully, because they don't have to decide up-front whether the app is worth installing -- they can decide later on whether or not they trust it to have access to something. Part of having fine-grained permissions is in getting rid of what I call the Terms of Service version, where you just stick anything you might ever want inside of a manifest and then users either accept everything or the app doesn't install.

seanwilson 8y ago
> Again, it's not hard for a malicious extension/app to do that, it's just that only the malicious extensions/apps are going to do that. So it becomes easier to educate users with simple rules like, "if a site asks for a permission that's unrelated to what you're doing, always say no." Are you sure it's this simple? Adblockers and password managers for example require wide ranging permissions to work and there's plenty of popular extensions in the same situation.
- Ajedi32 8y ago
  Password managers don't need extensive permissions, they just need a built-in autofill API. Similarly, you could implement a basic adblocker via a declarative content blocking API. Fine-grained permissions will allow for this sort of thing.
  - seanwilson 8y ago
    Does that cover the functionality of most popular extensions though? When there's an API that matches up with the purpose of the extension, it's more straightforward. I would have thought the popularity of those particular example extensions is what partially drove the creation of those APIs as well.
    - Ajedi32 8y ago
      The APIs I mentioned in my previous comment don't exist yet. My point is that Google is going to need to _build_ APIs to fulfill all of the most common use cases (including those ones) in order to succeed in their goal of making extension permissions more fine-grained. So yes, the functionality of most popular extensions will be covered by the new APIs, because Google will designing the new APIs with those popular extensions in mind.

kevingadd 8y ago

It does, and many extensions on the store already request huge blanket permission sets they don't need. The UI flow for requesting a new permission with an update is awful to the point that many users never even notice it, so you really should just request every possible permission when you first release your extension. They need to fix the UX here and it doesn't seem like they intend to.

Vinnl 8y ago

I think most vigilante extensions arise from malicious players buying popular extensions and then uploading nefarious new versions. In other words, the original authors do not necessarily have incentive to request as many permissions as possible.