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You have no right to privacy when crossing an international border. The solution is simple - don't carry any data you don't want to give to the country you're e

You have no right to privacy when crossing an international border. The solution is simple - don't carry any data you don't want to give to the country you're entering.

ISL 8y ago
There should be for citizens of the United States re-entering the United States. It says so in the Constitution. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." That is not how it is in practice, but the Constitution is quite clear on the subject.
- otterley 8y ago
  Attorney here! (Not providing legal advice.) The power to conduct border searches, even without probable cause, is considered well-settled under the law as not contravening the Constitution. See, e.g., U.S. v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606 (1977).
  - ISL 8y ago
    Entirely agreed that precedent accords Customs their present powers. From the case's dissent: "If the Government is allowed to exercise he power it claims, the door will be open to the wholesale, secret examination of all incoming international letter mail. No notice would be necessary either before or after the search." Viewed from a post-Snowden perspective, it sounds predictive. Segregation, too, was once considered well-settled. That didn't make it right nor consistent with the Constitution, which has not changed its language on the subject since 1868.
strictnein 8y ago
This is 100% the right solution, and there's a pretty easy way to accomplish this, with iPhones at least: Back up to iCloud Wipe your phone Cross the border Restore from iCloud And yes, this may fail visiting China, because who knows what the Great Firewall will block.
- mistersquid 8y ago
  This is good advice but practitioners should be advised that iOS data backed up to iCloud can be decrypted by Apple and, as a result, is subject to subpoena by the authorities.
  - otterley 8y ago
    Attorney here! (Not giving legal advice.) The good news is that, at least in the U.S., a warrant (not a subpoena, that’s for civil matters) needs to be issued by a judge and can issue only if probable cause is provided. That’s a much higher standard than a border search, where no such limitations apply.
    - samontar 8y ago
      Let’s be real. The law allows them sufficient room to detain people that they’ll just threaten to make life hard for you if you don’t do things the easy way. The law is a post-facto thing which you can use to sue if you want to lose some years of your life. It never actually helps prevent a bad situation. And to make it worse you’ll probably effectively be banned from traveling for being a troublemaker.
- woutr_be 8y ago
  Do note that restoring your phone can be a massive pain, even on a fast network it took me a couple of hours to fully restore it. There's also certain things you'll need to set up again; Apple Pay, mail passwords, ... So it's really not as simple as you make it out to be.
  - balladeer 8y ago
    I wish I could - backup essentials to iCloud - and backup pretty much everything (whatever I want) to iTunes so that I could do a full restore from a local backup.
- jsoc815 8y ago
  I'm genuinely curious; why is cloud storage considered to be a solution here? When I put my 'megalomania cap' on, one of the first things I do is figure that people will use the cloud, which actually makes me happy. I won't have to worry about notifications, in-person confrontations and/or low-level employee error. Same for people opting to ship their devices abroad via FedEx and the like to avoid the hassle of wiping and/or being searched. As far as I can tell (from reading history and living), companies, no matter how beneficent they claim to be, acquiesce to "gov't" demands because the penalty of not doing so is death. Recent case in point, Google in the PRC. But again, I fully admit that I may be wrong here. So, if I am, I hope someone will take the time to explain why. Thanks.

You have no right to privacy when crossing an international border. The solution is simple - don't carry any data you don't want to give to the country you're entering.

ISL 8y ago

There should be for citizens of the United States re-entering the United States. It says so in the Constitution. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." That is not how it is in practice, but the Constitution is quite clear on the subject.

otterley 8y ago
Attorney here! (Not providing legal advice.) The power to conduct border searches, even without probable cause, is considered well-settled under the law as not contravening the Constitution. See, e.g., U.S. v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606 (1977).
- ISL 8y ago
  Entirely agreed that precedent accords Customs their present powers. From the case's dissent: "If the Government is allowed to exercise he power it claims, the door will be open to the wholesale, secret examination of all incoming international letter mail. No notice would be necessary either before or after the search." Viewed from a post-Snowden perspective, it sounds predictive. Segregation, too, was once considered well-settled. That didn't make it right nor consistent with the Constitution, which has not changed its language on the subject since 1868.

strictnein 8y ago

This is 100% the right solution, and there's a pretty easy way to accomplish this, with iPhones at least: Back up to iCloud Wipe your phone Cross the border Restore from iCloud And yes, this may fail visiting China, because who knows what the Great Firewall will block.

mistersquid 8y ago
This is good advice but practitioners should be advised that iOS data backed up to iCloud can be decrypted by Apple and, as a result, is subject to subpoena by the authorities.
- otterley 8y ago
  Attorney here! (Not giving legal advice.) The good news is that, at least in the U.S., a warrant (not a subpoena, that’s for civil matters) needs to be issued by a judge and can issue only if probable cause is provided. That’s a much higher standard than a border search, where no such limitations apply.
  - samontar 8y ago
    Let’s be real. The law allows them sufficient room to detain people that they’ll just threaten to make life hard for you if you don’t do things the easy way. The law is a post-facto thing which you can use to sue if you want to lose some years of your life. It never actually helps prevent a bad situation. And to make it worse you’ll probably effectively be banned from traveling for being a troublemaker.
woutr_be 8y ago
Do note that restoring your phone can be a massive pain, even on a fast network it took me a couple of hours to fully restore it. There's also certain things you'll need to set up again; Apple Pay, mail passwords, ... So it's really not as simple as you make it out to be.
- balladeer 8y ago
  I wish I could - backup essentials to iCloud - and backup pretty much everything (whatever I want) to iTunes so that I could do a full restore from a local backup.
jsoc815 8y ago
I'm genuinely curious; why is cloud storage considered to be a solution here? When I put my 'megalomania cap' on, one of the first things I do is figure that people will use the cloud, which actually makes me happy. I won't have to worry about notifications, in-person confrontations and/or low-level employee error. Same for people opting to ship their devices abroad via FedEx and the like to avoid the hassle of wiping and/or being searched. As far as I can tell (from reading history and living), companies, no matter how beneficent they claim to be, acquiesce to "gov't" demands because the penalty of not doing so is death. Recent case in point, Google in the PRC. But again, I fully admit that I may be wrong here. So, if I am, I hope someone will take the time to explain why. Thanks.