4 ms·

The content of an MBA program is probably useful. The problem is that it became associated with an easy path to a high-earning credential, so it self-selected f

by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

The content of an MBA program is probably useful. The problem is that it became associated with an easy path to a high-earning credential, so it self-selected for people who expect to earn a high wage, who want graduate education to be as easy as possible, and who want credential and status to be the main ways of getting money (instead of, say, working hard to have a skill). The light got shined on this type of program, these credential-seeking roaches scattered, and now they’ll go ruin some other perfectly reasonable academic discipline, most probably data science. I don’t blame the roaches. I guess I blame idiots who buy knowledge products based on credential, and thus either employ these credential roaches at high wages, or else generate the demand that makes it profitable for other consulting / white-shoe sorts of businesses to employ the roaches.

x220 8y ago
You are basically criticizing people for wanting money and not wanting to do unnecessary work for it. You might as well criticize human nature. 99% of people pick the best path they can see towards an easier life that gives them the most suitable work/money trade-off they are able to tolerate. If MBA grads aren't good at what they do, that's the fault of MBA programs. MBA grads just want to get credentials and training and make money, just like almost every person in the world. I tend to shy away from personal statements, but your use of "roaches" makes me think that some of what you say bleeds from personal wounds.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Criticizing human nature is a good way to improve our behavioral defaults. For example using science instead of burning witches. You seem surprised someone would criticize a bad manifestation of human nature. That puzzles me, given that it’s so historically effective.
  - x220 8y ago
    I'm surprised you're criticizing MBA grads instead of the MBA programs, since the MBA programs aren't teaching effectively while the MBA grads are merely trying to get a better life.
    - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
      I explicitly said I didn’t blame the grads in my original comment, at least not nearly as much as businesses that keep facilitating economic demand for those credentials.
      - x220 8y ago
        You call them roaches. At the very least, I think you resent them immensely. I don't mean this to undermine you, but rather to provoke thought: are you sure you don't blame them?
        mlthoughts2018 8y ago
        Your comment took an interpretation of mine that doesn’t seem compatible with what I actually wrote, particularly that I explicitly said I did not blame people for credential rent seeking (even if it makes me justifiably angry), but rather I blame organizations that fuel the demand which makes this credential rent seeking profitable in the first place. Somehow you feel that because I used an analogy of roaches scattering to describe when rent-seeking people looking to secure rents with credential are forced to flee one source (MBA programs) for some other that this makes your interpretation compatible with what I wrote, but I don’t see why. You questioning “why I blame [MBA grads]” seems just as incompatible with what I wrote as before.
- opportune 8y ago
  This argument doesn't make any sense, plenty of bad things are human nature, that doesn't mean you should just throw up your hands and say "oh well".
currymj 8y ago
I get the complaint about credentialism in certain degree programs and the worry that it will spread into what I assume is your own field. But the comparison of human beings to cockroaches is very troubling to me; it sounds much harsher than I hope you intend.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  That’s totally fair. I thought of the imagery of scattering when the light turns on, but did not mean to imply any other connotations. I think there is a certain attributable antagonism to people who chase after credential rent seeking opportunities, but I do not think anything substantially worse of those people, and I did not intend anything like that with my use of the roach comparison.

x220 8y ago

You are basically criticizing people for wanting money and not wanting to do unnecessary work for it. You might as well criticize human nature. 99% of people pick the best path they can see towards an easier life that gives them the most suitable work/money trade-off they are able to tolerate. If MBA grads aren't good at what they do, that's the fault of MBA programs. MBA grads just want to get credentials and training and make money, just like almost every person in the world. I tend to shy away from personal statements, but your use of "roaches" makes me think that some of what you say bleeds from personal wounds.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Criticizing human nature is a good way to improve our behavioral defaults. For example using science instead of burning witches. You seem surprised someone would criticize a bad manifestation of human nature. That puzzles me, given that it’s so historically effective.
- x220 8y ago
  I'm surprised you're criticizing MBA grads instead of the MBA programs, since the MBA programs aren't teaching effectively while the MBA grads are merely trying to get a better life.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    I explicitly said I didn’t blame the grads in my original comment, at least not nearly as much as businesses that keep facilitating economic demand for those credentials.
    - x220 8y ago
      You call them roaches. At the very least, I think you resent them immensely. I don't mean this to undermine you, but rather to provoke thought: are you sure you don't blame them?
      - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
        Your comment took an interpretation of mine that doesn’t seem compatible with what I actually wrote, particularly that I explicitly said I did not blame people for credential rent seeking (even if it makes me justifiably angry), but rather I blame organizations that fuel the demand which makes this credential rent seeking profitable in the first place. Somehow you feel that because I used an analogy of roaches scattering to describe when rent-seeking people looking to secure rents with credential are forced to flee one source (MBA programs) for some other that this makes your interpretation compatible with what I wrote, but I don’t see why. You questioning “why I blame [MBA grads]” seems just as incompatible with what I wrote as before.
opportune 8y ago
This argument doesn't make any sense, plenty of bad things are human nature, that doesn't mean you should just throw up your hands and say "oh well".

currymj 8y ago

I get the complaint about credentialism in certain degree programs and the worry that it will spread into what I assume is your own field. But the comparison of human beings to cockroaches is very troubling to me; it sounds much harsher than I hope you intend.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
That’s totally fair. I thought of the imagery of scattering when the light turns on, but did not mean to imply any other connotations. I think there is a certain attributable antagonism to people who chase after credential rent seeking opportunities, but I do not think anything substantially worse of those people, and I did not intend anything like that with my use of the roach comparison.