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This sounds awful. This is a problem I have with a lot of Netflix's content. It's nobody's baby. There's no singular vision behind it where a person came up wit

by imgabe 8y ago

This sounds awful. This is a problem I have with a lot of Netflix's content. It's nobody's baby. There's no singular vision behind it where a person came up with a story they want to tell. Instead it's algorithmically generated like "Here's some things that popular things have in common, write a story around these elements". That can get something passable sometimes, but mostly not. Most great art is the product of one mind at the most basic level. Of course with something like a TV show or movie there are thousands of people involved, but there has to a captain to the ship, so to speak. Otherwise it just floats around aimlessly because multiple people can be pulling it in different directions. It's riskier, because if that person is bad, the whole thing is going to turn out bad, but it's the only way to get something truly good.

izaidi 8y ago
That's not how Netflix content is written. There are sometimes algorithm-driven decisions on which projects to acquire and finance, but once they buy something, the creators have full control to execute their vision -- much moreso than with a conventional network or studio.
- kough 8y ago
  None of the content that makes it to mass media -- film, tv, whatever -- is the unique vision of a sole creator. People are foisting their fears about this onto Netflix, and find evidence of "writing-by-data" in its content, because they are looking for it. No one wants to pull down the curtain and look this closely at the rest of the media we consume because it would ruin the illusion that it's worth watching. Like most other media, video has lost most of its cult value.
- eschutte2 8y ago
  Once it's known that the decisions on what to acquire are algorithm-driven, which projects do you think creators are going to pitch to Netflix?
elicash 8y ago
This argument reminds me a lot of Roger Ebert's argument that video games can never be art. https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-art https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-ne... He says, "My notion is that it grows better the more it improves or alters nature through an passage through what we might call the artist's soul, or vision." In fact, the article even notes "two of the projects are adaptations of video games!" Maybe one reason why in my view there aren't a lot of great movies based on video games is because there's something missing in the form that Netflix can improve upon. Hacker News shouldn't be a place where innovation is always so immediately viewed so skeptically. Most new ideas will fail, but shouldn't it be encouraged anyway? Taking a step back, and more to the substance of your point, I don't think participatory art is any less one person's vision. You look at something like Yayoi Kusama's Obliteration Rooms and you come away with a very clear vision from her. In the same way, what Black Mirror is trying to do with this experiment by incorporating audience participation seems to be very much a part of the story that they are trying to tell. On the children shows, I think you are actually outside of this debate because the question is more what's better from an educational standpoint than from an artistic standpoint.
stordoff 8y ago
If it's choosing an ending, I agree, that does sound awful (I want to be surprised by how something ends), but if it's making a choice and then the show has to deal with the consequences of that, that could be interesting (especially as it's Black Mirror, which is likely to actively subvert the choice). It's certainly possible to have a singular vision but multiple endings.
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
I fail to see how one show trying out an unconventional approach to storytelling for one episode is an example of churning out a bunch of algorithmically generated garbage. If anything, it is the exact opposite. The show is trying out something new and risky, not just mimicking what came before.

by imgabe 8y ago

izaidi 8y ago

That's not how Netflix content is written. There are sometimes algorithm-driven decisions on which projects to acquire and finance, but once they buy something, the creators have full control to execute their vision -- much moreso than with a conventional network or studio.

kough 8y ago
None of the content that makes it to mass media -- film, tv, whatever -- is the unique vision of a sole creator. People are foisting their fears about this onto Netflix, and find evidence of "writing-by-data" in its content, because they are looking for it. No one wants to pull down the curtain and look this closely at the rest of the media we consume because it would ruin the illusion that it's worth watching. Like most other media, video has lost most of its cult value.
eschutte2 8y ago
Once it's known that the decisions on what to acquire are algorithm-driven, which projects do you think creators are going to pitch to Netflix?

elicash 8y ago

This argument reminds me a lot of Roger Ebert's argument that video games can never be art. https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-art https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-ne... He says, "My notion is that it grows better the more it improves or alters nature through an passage through what we might call the artist's soul, or vision." In fact, the article even notes "two of the projects are adaptations of video games!" Maybe one reason why in my view there aren't a lot of great movies based on video games is because there's something missing in the form that Netflix can improve upon. Hacker News shouldn't be a place where innovation is always so immediately viewed so skeptically. Most new ideas will fail, but shouldn't it be encouraged anyway? Taking a step back, and more to the substance of your point, I don't think participatory art is any less one person's vision. You look at something like Yayoi Kusama's Obliteration Rooms and you come away with a very clear vision from her. In the same way, what Black Mirror is trying to do with this experiment by incorporating audience participation seems to be very much a part of the story that they are trying to tell. On the children shows, I think you are actually outside of this debate because the question is more what's better from an educational standpoint than from an artistic standpoint.

stordoff 8y ago

If it's choosing an ending, I agree, that does sound awful (I want to be surprised by how something ends), but if it's making a choice and then the show has to deal with the consequences of that, that could be interesting (especially as it's Black Mirror, which is likely to actively subvert the choice). It's certainly possible to have a singular vision but multiple endings.

TheCoelacanth 8y ago

I fail to see how one show trying out an unconventional approach to storytelling for one episode is an example of churning out a bunch of algorithmically generated garbage. If anything, it is the exact opposite. The show is trying out something new and risky, not just mimicking what came before.