5 ms·

I agree that fiat currency would be more useful if the recipient lives in a place with a functional financial system and/or a competent government. However, in

I agree that fiat currency would be more useful if the recipient lives in a place with a functional financial system and/or a competent government. However, in places where money is broken (i.e. venezuela) or government is broken (i.e. refugee camps), it is possible that a crypto-currency might be more useful than fiat.

Finnucane 8y ago
In Venezuela, only the local currency is a problem. You could still send dollars. And refugee camps, might be better off getting food and medicine directly.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
  Sending money long distances especially crossing borders is a non-trivial problem.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    Is that problem any harder than sending Bitcoin, converting it to real money, and then trying to spend it? Because converting Bitcoin to Venezuelan Bolivars (or USD in Venezuela) is also a non-trivial problem.
    - X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
      Agreed. Imo one of the benefits of Bitcoin is that it should provide a ceiling of cost of remittance that is Bitcoin tx fees 2x + inconvenience of using it to acquire goods. Unfortunately the progress on the second front has been extremely slow
gamblor956 8y ago
There is no situation in which you have a broken government (i.e., refugee camps) where it is possible that crypto-currency will be useful. In refugee camps, even the doctors and aid workers have minimal access to the internet, and certainly not the type of stable connection you would need to transact crypto. Moreover, you would have extreme difficulty finding counterparties for the crypto-fiat exchange that don't charge usurious rates. In situations where you just have broken governments, like Syria or Somalia, you generally also have broken utilities and private services, and internet is definitely low down on the list of priorities when you're worried about basic survival.
- joewaltman 8y ago
  While I agree that there are a number of challenges around actually utilizing crypto in places like this, you must also agree that some of crypto's unique characteristics are actually very compelling in these situations. For example, it is very expensive to get supplies or money into these 'camps'. The (relatively) immediate and peer-to-peer nature of cryptocurrency is perfect for this kind of help.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
    Those characteristics are compelling but unrealized. Your approach strikes me as roughly equivalent to premature optimization. The technical aspects of cryptocurrency that make it interesting are (or at least should be) secondary to the primary goal of actually helping in the present. The answer to your question - how to give crypto to people in need - is to convert it to cash and then give it to them.
  - davidcbc 8y ago
    In the situation where it is prohibitively expensive to get money or supplies into a place what are you expecting these people to spend their cryptocurrency on?
  - Finnucane 8y ago
    I do not have to agree that cryptotokens have any compelling characteristics.
    - X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
      I can lose citizenship, suffer from identity theft and lose all of my physical possessions and still recover what funds I have in cryptotokens as long as I can acquire an internet connected computer.
      - Finnucane 8y ago
        Having you tokens stolen is probably more likely than those other things.
masukomi 8y ago
It's common knowledge that refugees streaming across border regularly bring computers, cell phones, solar panels, and large batteries to keep all those things going. Plus unlike most people in first world countries, most refugees are well versed in cryptocurrency wallets, trading, and the relative value of those coins to the daily needs of life like bread, and vegetables. .... end sarcasm.
- joewaltman 8y ago
  I have been surprised by the technical fluency and sophistication of refugees. And, I appreciate sarcasm as much as anybody. :)
- X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
  I can't seem to find too many sources that speak to the raw percentage, but it appears that many to most refugees from syria (to take one example) have a cellphone and take great lengths to keep it safe & charged.

Finnucane 8y ago

In Venezuela, only the local currency is a problem. You could still send dollars. And refugee camps, might be better off getting food and medicine directly.

X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
Sending money long distances especially crossing borders is a non-trivial problem.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Is that problem any harder than sending Bitcoin, converting it to real money, and then trying to spend it? Because converting Bitcoin to Venezuelan Bolivars (or USD in Venezuela) is also a non-trivial problem.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
    Agreed. Imo one of the benefits of Bitcoin is that it should provide a ceiling of cost of remittance that is Bitcoin tx fees 2x + inconvenience of using it to acquire goods. Unfortunately the progress on the second front has been extremely slow

gamblor956 8y ago

There is no situation in which you have a broken government (i.e., refugee camps) where it is possible that crypto-currency will be useful. In refugee camps, even the doctors and aid workers have minimal access to the internet, and certainly not the type of stable connection you would need to transact crypto. Moreover, you would have extreme difficulty finding counterparties for the crypto-fiat exchange that don't charge usurious rates. In situations where you just have broken governments, like Syria or Somalia, you generally also have broken utilities and private services, and internet is definitely low down on the list of priorities when you're worried about basic survival.

joewaltman 8y ago
While I agree that there are a number of challenges around actually utilizing crypto in places like this, you must also agree that some of crypto's unique characteristics are actually very compelling in these situations. For example, it is very expensive to get supplies or money into these 'camps'. The (relatively) immediate and peer-to-peer nature of cryptocurrency is perfect for this kind of help.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
  Those characteristics are compelling but unrealized. Your approach strikes me as roughly equivalent to premature optimization. The technical aspects of cryptocurrency that make it interesting are (or at least should be) secondary to the primary goal of actually helping in the present. The answer to your question - how to give crypto to people in need - is to convert it to cash and then give it to them.
- davidcbc 8y ago
  In the situation where it is prohibitively expensive to get money or supplies into a place what are you expecting these people to spend their cryptocurrency on?
- Finnucane 8y ago
  I do not have to agree that cryptotokens have any compelling characteristics.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
    I can lose citizenship, suffer from identity theft and lose all of my physical possessions and still recover what funds I have in cryptotokens as long as I can acquire an internet connected computer.
    - Finnucane 8y ago
      Having you tokens stolen is probably more likely than those other things.

masukomi 8y ago

It's common knowledge that refugees streaming across border regularly bring computers, cell phones, solar panels, and large batteries to keep all those things going. Plus unlike most people in first world countries, most refugees are well versed in cryptocurrency wallets, trading, and the relative value of those coins to the daily needs of life like bread, and vegetables. .... end sarcasm.

joewaltman 8y ago
I have been surprised by the technical fluency and sophistication of refugees. And, I appreciate sarcasm as much as anybody. :)
X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
I can't seem to find too many sources that speak to the raw percentage, but it appears that many to most refugees from syria (to take one example) have a cellphone and take great lengths to keep it safe & charged.