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I wonder ho such policies work when you're hauling a device for somebody else. "Oh sorry this is my husbands's phone. And that laptop? It's my daughter's." Or s

by lolc 8y ago

I wonder ho such policies work when you're hauling a device for somebody else. "Oh sorry this is my husbands's phone. And that laptop? It's my daughter's." Or simply: "Oh my, I just got a new PIN and now I forgot it." Is it permissible to punish somebody for not knowing or for forgetting? And if not, who has the burden of proof? I find that these questions have no good answer. For this reason alone I regard laws that take away the right to remain silent as flawed in principle.

ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
Being that it's a country, I'd guess they'd be fully within their rights to deny entry on the suspicion that you are withholding your password. It's not really seen as a 'punishment', since no one has the 'right' to visit New Zealand who isn't a citizen.
- lolc 8y ago
  I think this regulation applies to citizens as well. The article said there could be a fine too. So citizens could get punished for not knowing a password. As far as I understood.
TACIXAT 8y ago
Under US law you can be compelled by a court to unlock (provide passwords / decrypt) a device if the contents of the device are known (the helpful search term for this is forgone conclusion). Otherwise it should be covered under the 5th. As for "forgetting" a password in this case, you will be held in contempt of court if they don't believe you, which can mean indefinite detention.
- drewmol 8y ago
  IIRC there are some historic high court rulings setting a precedent that detaining a defendant for not furnishing some information (combination to a lock) violates their protection against compelled self incrimination / right to remain silent but if it was a physical object (key to a lock) that did not necessarily voilate same rights. This has now led to digital age cases where the prosecution suggests a password should be analogous to a key, not an idea. On a quick search, I couldn't find the relevant cases or discussion...
hugh-avherald 8y ago
It's illegal to fail to answer truthfully. So saying 'I forget' (even if you have) is not a defence.

by lolc 8y ago

ApolloFortyNine 8y ago

Being that it's a country, I'd guess they'd be fully within their rights to deny entry on the suspicion that you are withholding your password. It's not really seen as a 'punishment', since no one has the 'right' to visit New Zealand who isn't a citizen.

lolc 8y ago
I think this regulation applies to citizens as well. The article said there could be a fine too. So citizens could get punished for not knowing a password. As far as I understood.

TACIXAT 8y ago

Under US law you can be compelled by a court to unlock (provide passwords / decrypt) a device if the contents of the device are known (the helpful search term for this is forgone conclusion). Otherwise it should be covered under the 5th. As for "forgetting" a password in this case, you will be held in contempt of court if they don't believe you, which can mean indefinite detention.

drewmol 8y ago
IIRC there are some historic high court rulings setting a precedent that detaining a defendant for not furnishing some information (combination to a lock) violates their protection against compelled self incrimination / right to remain silent but if it was a physical object (key to a lock) that did not necessarily voilate same rights. This has now led to digital age cases where the prosecution suggests a password should be analogous to a key, not an idea. On a quick search, I couldn't find the relevant cases or discussion...

hugh-avherald 8y ago

It's illegal to fail to answer truthfully. So saying 'I forget' (even if you have) is not a defence.