5 ms·

question: what countries on border entry can demand usernames/passwords to online services?

by plg 8y ago

gdhbcc 8y ago
All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. Are you asking which countries do demand it?
- eesmith 8y ago
  I think you should read that as: "Which countries have laws which allow border inspectors to demand usernames/passwords to online services?" Those which do demand it are a subset of those which can demand it. Your sovereignty argument is such an extreme interpretation of the question that it's almost certainly not what plg had in mind - if plg did have it in mind, then I find it hard to believe that question would have been asked in the first place. Consider the question "what countries on border entry can draw and quarter entering citizens?" Your viewpoint seems to be that the correct answer is "all of them", yes?
  - DavidHm 8y ago
    Depends on whether you consider the ICCPR and in particular articles 6-8 as superseding country sovereignty or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civil_and_Political_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civi...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Laws are irrelevant. What are you, the individual, going to do when a border agent takes your device and demands your password? “We’re just going to take this for a few minutes, what’s your password? Oh you won’t tell us? Sit in this room for 400hrs. Ok, thank you, you’re free to go, enjoy your stay.” Nothing. There’s nothing you can do. Lodging complaints after the fact doesn’t unviolate you. You can be a renown children’s author and the best you can hope for is an apology. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-los-angeles-airport-by-us-officials/8303366?pfmredir=sm http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-lo... And that from an ally. Not just any ally, Australia is the US’s best friend.
- plg 8y ago
  Yes I was asking which countries are known to routinely demand login credentials for online services, and I don't mean who does it for a small number of persons-of-interest but I mean who does it routinely?
- tomjen3 8y ago
  That would be hilarious: Room Temperature IQ Goon (RTG): Give me your facebook password Me: I don't know my facebook password RTG: How do you login? Me: I have a service to hold all my passwords RTG: What is that service and what is the password Me: Lastpass, but I don't have the second password RTG: Second password? Me: Yes, it requires me to use a U2F token to generate a second password RTG: What is a U2F token and give it to me Me: I leave it at home for security RTG: Give me your phone Me: Hands over 3310 RTG: Your real phone Me: I don't travel internationally with a phone that have any data on it that I care about. Of course the real solution is that I don't travel anywhere.
  - teddyh 8y ago
    Your fantasy scenario (oh so satisfying) is very similar to this: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ Consider the truth therein. > Of course the real solution is that I don't travel anywhere. That is considerably more realistic, sadly.
- dctoedt 8y ago
  > All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. "Sovereign" is a fancy word that boils down to, we have enough police- and/or military power at our disposal that we can force you to do it.
  - jboles 8y ago
    No; you are never forced to visit foreign countries. It's more along the lines of: you want to visit, you play by our rules.
    - dctoedt 8y ago
      > It's more along the lines of: you want to visit, you play by our rules. PoTAYto, poTAHto
    - torgian 8y ago
      Or in the case of a citizen of said country it’s, “you want to return home, play by our border rules, and btw you have no citizen rights because the border isn’t the country.”
      - brokenmachine 8y ago
        Can a border agent refuse entry to a citizen of a country?
        angry_octet 8y ago
        They can in some countries. China for example. America has de facto exile due to the No Fly List: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jun/17/no-fly-list-american-muslim-egypt https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/ju... https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/02/201324165957645514.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/02/2013241659... https://www.thedailybeast.com/one-womans-case-proves-its-basically-impossible-to-get-off-the-no-fly-list https://www.thedailybeast.com/one-womans-case-proves-its-bas... https://www.courthousenews.com/en-banc-9th-circuit-takes-up-fee-challenge-in-no-fly-list-fiasco/ https://www.courthousenews.com/en-banc-9th-circuit-takes-up-... https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/01/who-can-challenge-the-no-fly-list https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/01/who-can-challenge-the-n... Snowden is arguably in exile, as his passport was cancelled, but he wouldn't be refused entry :-)
NegativeLatency 8y ago
The EFF might have some resources that answer your question.
ataturk 8y ago
I have never had a Facebook account. How can they demand something I have never had?

question: what countries on border entry can demand usernames/passwords to online services?

by plg 8y ago

question: what countries on border entry can demand usernames/passwords to online services?

gdhbcc 8y ago

All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. Are you asking which countries do demand it?

eesmith 8y ago
I think you should read that as: "Which countries have laws which allow border inspectors to demand usernames/passwords to online services?" Those which do demand it are a subset of those which can demand it. Your sovereignty argument is such an extreme interpretation of the question that it's almost certainly not what plg had in mind - if plg did have it in mind, then I find it hard to believe that question would have been asked in the first place. Consider the question "what countries on border entry can draw and quarter entering citizens?" Your viewpoint seems to be that the correct answer is "all of them", yes?
- DavidHm 8y ago
  Depends on whether you consider the ICCPR and in particular articles 6-8 as superseding country sovereignty or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civil_and_Political_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civi...
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Laws are irrelevant. What are you, the individual, going to do when a border agent takes your device and demands your password? “We’re just going to take this for a few minutes, what’s your password? Oh you won’t tell us? Sit in this room for 400hrs. Ok, thank you, you’re free to go, enjoy your stay.” Nothing. There’s nothing you can do. Lodging complaints after the fact doesn’t unviolate you. You can be a renown children’s author and the best you can hope for is an apology. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-los-angeles-airport-by-us-officials/8303366?pfmredir=sm http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-lo... And that from an ally. Not just any ally, Australia is the US’s best friend.
plg 8y ago
Yes I was asking which countries are known to routinely demand login credentials for online services, and I don't mean who does it for a small number of persons-of-interest but I mean who does it routinely?
tomjen3 8y ago
That would be hilarious: Room Temperature IQ Goon (RTG): Give me your facebook password Me: I don't know my facebook password RTG: How do you login? Me: I have a service to hold all my passwords RTG: What is that service and what is the password Me: Lastpass, but I don't have the second password RTG: Second password? Me: Yes, it requires me to use a U2F token to generate a second password RTG: What is a U2F token and give it to me Me: I leave it at home for security RTG: Give me your phone Me: Hands over 3310 RTG: Your real phone Me: I don't travel internationally with a phone that have any data on it that I care about. Of course the real solution is that I don't travel anywhere.
- teddyh 8y ago
  Your fantasy scenario (oh so satisfying) is very similar to this: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ Consider the truth therein. > Of course the real solution is that I don't travel anywhere. That is considerably more realistic, sadly.
dctoedt 8y ago
> All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. "Sovereign" is a fancy word that boils down to, we have enough police- and/or military power at our disposal that we can force you to do it.
- jboles 8y ago
  No; you are never forced to visit foreign countries. It's more along the lines of: you want to visit, you play by our rules.
  - dctoedt 8y ago
    > It's more along the lines of: you want to visit, you play by our rules. PoTAYto, poTAHto
  - torgian 8y ago
    Or in the case of a citizen of said country it’s, “you want to return home, play by our border rules, and btw you have no citizen rights because the border isn’t the country.”
    - brokenmachine 8y ago
      Can a border agent refuse entry to a citizen of a country?
      - angry_octet 8y ago
        They can in some countries. China for example. America has de facto exile due to the No Fly List: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jun/17/no-fly-list-american-muslim-egypt https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/ju... https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/02/201324165957645514.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/02/2013241659... https://www.thedailybeast.com/one-womans-case-proves-its-basically-impossible-to-get-off-the-no-fly-list https://www.thedailybeast.com/one-womans-case-proves-its-bas... https://www.courthousenews.com/en-banc-9th-circuit-takes-up-fee-challenge-in-no-fly-list-fiasco/ https://www.courthousenews.com/en-banc-9th-circuit-takes-up-... https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/01/who-can-challenge-the-no-fly-list https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/01/who-can-challenge-the-n... Snowden is arguably in exile, as his passport was cancelled, but he wouldn't be refused entry :-)

NegativeLatency 8y ago

The EFF might have some resources that answer your question.

ataturk 8y ago

I have never had a Facebook account. How can they demand something I have never had?