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Definitely not as overtly prohibitive as in the past, but still we have workplaces/systems/hierarchies which aren't as inclusive for men as they are for women.

Definitely not as overtly prohibitive as in the past, but still we have workplaces/systems/hierarchies which aren't as inclusive for men as they are for women. e.g.: you won't find many women on the trading floor, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of women out there who would enjoy making a shit ton of money in a high-risk environment. However the treatment of women there is notoriously bad. It's not the job women don't want, it's the toxic environment which goes along with it.

DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
I'm inclined to believe that those jobs are equally as toxic towards men as to women. This is purely based on my personal experience, but to me it seems as though men just grow more used to the typical male-to-male bullshit (pardon the expression) while growing up, so they can more easily just deal with it. Also, consider that it isn't enough that women want those jobs, there needs to be lots of women who want those jobs. If the set of people who 1. want those jobs and 2. believe they are capable of achieving them contains less women, then the subset of those people who are good enough to get those jobs will also contain less women. Now, combining the factors that 1. girls are often confronted with an image of men being good at the sciencey stuff and women being better at caring for a family and 2. to women it's much more viable to instead attempt to get married to a man with one such high-paying job\, it makes sense that less women would attempt to get into those positions. \ And I am not trying to say that's something only women do, but something men would probably do just as much if it was available to them.
- GaryNumanVevo 8y ago
  So there's a benefit to reducing that "male-to-male bullshit" not only for men, but for women too
  - DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
    Yes, except that won't happen. Why would those men who can take the bullshit stop? Why would they make their job more attractive to their competition?
  - tomp 8y ago
    Noone is opposing the argument "reduce bullshit" (we're just pointing out it's unrealistic). But the argument "reduce bullshit because women" is simply sexist.
malvosenior 8y ago
Would you say that women greatly outnumber men in university because the environment is toxic to men, there are systematic hierarchies holding men back, or men's preferences lead them not to attend?

DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago

I'm inclined to believe that those jobs are equally as toxic towards men as to women. This is purely based on my personal experience, but to me it seems as though men just grow more used to the typical male-to-male bullshit (pardon the expression) while growing up, so they can more easily just deal with it. Also, consider that it isn't enough that women want those jobs, there needs to be lots of women who want those jobs. If the set of people who 1. want those jobs and 2. believe they are capable of achieving them contains less women, then the subset of those people who are good enough to get those jobs will also contain less women. Now, combining the factors that 1. girls are often confronted with an image of men being good at the sciencey stuff and women being better at caring for a family and 2. to women it's much more viable to instead attempt to get married to a man with one such high-paying job\, it makes sense that less women would attempt to get into those positions. \ And I am not trying to say that's something only women do, but something men would probably do just as much if it was available to them.

GaryNumanVevo 8y ago
So there's a benefit to reducing that "male-to-male bullshit" not only for men, but for women too
- DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
  Yes, except that won't happen. Why would those men who can take the bullshit stop? Why would they make their job more attractive to their competition?
- tomp 8y ago
  Noone is opposing the argument "reduce bullshit" (we're just pointing out it's unrealistic). But the argument "reduce bullshit because women" is simply sexist.

malvosenior 8y ago

Would you say that women greatly outnumber men in university because the environment is toxic to men, there are systematic hierarchies holding men back, or men's preferences lead them not to attend?