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Why was this flagged? I don't think it deserves to be flagged - even if the opinion the person holds is unconventional. OT: He does say his conclusions might

Why was this flagged? I don't think it deserves to be flagged - even if the opinion the person holds is unconventional. OT: He does say his conclusions might not be fully right. But that the assumption of identical brains is ideology. Now, I agree with this but it does not mean one is better than the other. The fact that women might produce _less_ output (as shown in the stats?) does not mean they produce less valuable work. They might just get their priorities different later in life, as opposed to men. But again, those are generalisations and you probably should not try to generalize these kinds of things to apply to _all women_. It was also not the right place to make those comments I think.

tomp 8y ago
Controversial non-PC opinions are often flagged on HN, because no productive discussion usually results (not just gender, but also politics).
- Insanity 8y ago
  Seems to me that the comments of such a discussion ought to be flagged rather than the entire article. But that can grow out of hand more quickly, unfortunately.
  - tomp 8y ago
    Yeah the second thing is the problem... You also often see like 100 upvotes and 300 comments and many comments downvoted... HN algorithms recognize such articles/threads as "flame wars" so they demote (but not flag) them.
rayiner 8y ago
If you're going to lob grenades, own it instead of hiding behind "but I might be wrong." The math/science magnet high school I attended is now predominantly Asian, in an area that's predominantly white. My hypothesis is that Asians are better at math/science than whites. But I could be wrong! At the very least, the "assumption of identical brains is ideology." /sarcasm ^^^ Do you think that's a useful analysis of the situation, or is it unnecessarily inflammatory given the shaky reasoning underlying the point?
- tomp 8y ago
  > My hypothesis is that Asians are better at math/science than whites. If that's sarcasm, presumably you think that Asians aren't better at math/science than whites. Assuming that's true, you should conclude that there are cultural factors contributing to the imbalance. So do you support measures that would discriminate against Asians (i.e. pro-white affirmative action) to correct for this "structural" imbalance?
  - rayiner 8y ago
    If whites were the subject of longstanding past discrimination, then sure, and I'd support such measures. I think it's irrational to assume that you can remedy past discrimination without affirmative action. It's like bending a paperclip and assuming that it'll return to its original shape so long as you leave it alone.
    - tomp 8y ago
      Hm... it worked quite well (much better than science and engineering anyhow) in medicine, law, biology, arts, ... http://www.linehollis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/84bendincontext.png http://www.linehollis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/84bendi...
      - rayiner 8y ago
        Both medical schools and law schools made affirmative efforts to get enrollment to be near 50-50, then the new ratio ended up being self-sustaining.
        traverseda 8y ago
        That's very interesting, can you provide a source for that?
        rayiner 8y ago
        In the 1970s, there were a spate of class-action lawsuits that lead to court-supervised changes in firm hiring practices, and in some cases express quotas: https://biglawbusiness.com/decades-old-gender-bias-case-marked-turning-point-in-big-law; https://biglawbusiness.com/decades-old-gender-bias-case-mark... https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/08/archives/top-law-firm-bans-sex-discrimination-sullivan-cromwell-will-pursue.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/08/archives/top-law-firm-ban.... At least as long as I can recall, the express goal of the ABA, etc., has been proportional representation and equal compensation, not merely some abstract commitment to "gender blindness." See ABA recommendations: https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/women/closing_the_gap.authcheckdam.pdf https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/w.... Statistics are tracked and some firms have made express commitments: http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/the-mansfield-rule-lawyers-diversity; http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/the-mansfield-rule-lawyers-div... https://www.law.com/dailyreportonline/2018/06/07/eversheds-sutherland-says-30-percent-of-equity-partners-to-be-women-by-2021 https://www.law.com/dailyreportonline/2018/06/07/eversheds-s....

tomp 8y ago

Controversial non-PC opinions are often flagged on HN, because no productive discussion usually results (not just gender, but also politics).

Insanity 8y ago
Seems to me that the comments of such a discussion ought to be flagged rather than the entire article. But that can grow out of hand more quickly, unfortunately.
- tomp 8y ago
  Yeah the second thing is the problem... You also often see like 100 upvotes and 300 comments and many comments downvoted... HN algorithms recognize such articles/threads as "flame wars" so they demote (but not flag) them.

rayiner 8y ago

If you're going to lob grenades, own it instead of hiding behind "but I might be wrong." The math/science magnet high school I attended is now predominantly Asian, in an area that's predominantly white. My hypothesis is that Asians are better at math/science than whites. But I could be wrong! At the very least, the "assumption of identical brains is ideology." /sarcasm ^^^ Do you think that's a useful analysis of the situation, or is it unnecessarily inflammatory given the shaky reasoning underlying the point?

tomp 8y ago
> My hypothesis is that Asians are better at math/science than whites. If that's sarcasm, presumably you think that Asians aren't better at math/science than whites. Assuming that's true, you should conclude that there are cultural factors contributing to the imbalance. So do you support measures that would discriminate against Asians (i.e. pro-white affirmative action) to correct for this "structural" imbalance?
- rayiner 8y ago
  If whites were the subject of longstanding past discrimination, then sure, and I'd support such measures. I think it's irrational to assume that you can remedy past discrimination without affirmative action. It's like bending a paperclip and assuming that it'll return to its original shape so long as you leave it alone.
  - tomp 8y ago
    Hm... it worked quite well (much better than science and engineering anyhow) in medicine, law, biology, arts, ... http://www.linehollis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/84bendincontext.png http://www.linehollis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/84bendi...
    - rayiner 8y ago
      Both medical schools and law schools made affirmative efforts to get enrollment to be near 50-50, then the new ratio ended up being self-sustaining.
      - traverseda 8y ago
        That's very interesting, can you provide a source for that?
        rayiner 8y ago
        In the 1970s, there were a spate of class-action lawsuits that lead to court-supervised changes in firm hiring practices, and in some cases express quotas: https://biglawbusiness.com/decades-old-gender-bias-case-marked-turning-point-in-big-law; https://biglawbusiness.com/decades-old-gender-bias-case-mark... https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/08/archives/top-law-firm-bans-sex-discrimination-sullivan-cromwell-will-pursue.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/05/08/archives/top-law-firm-ban.... At least as long as I can recall, the express goal of the ABA, etc., has been proportional representation and equal compensation, not merely some abstract commitment to "gender blindness." See ABA recommendations: https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/women/closing_the_gap.authcheckdam.pdf https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/w.... Statistics are tracked and some firms have made express commitments: http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/the-mansfield-rule-lawyers-diversity; http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/the-mansfield-rule-lawyers-div... https://www.law.com/dailyreportonline/2018/06/07/eversheds-sutherland-says-30-percent-of-equity-partners-to-be-women-by-2021 https://www.law.com/dailyreportonline/2018/06/07/eversheds-s....