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Netflix to let viewers pick how TV episodes and movies will end
- FrancoisBosun 8y agoCan't read article because I am in violation of some kind of terms: """ Terms of Service Violation Your usage has been flagged as a violation of our terms of service. For inquiries related to this message please contact support. For sales inquiries, please visit http://www.bloomberg.com/professional/request-demo http://www.bloomberg.com/professional/request-demo If you believe this to be in error, please confirm below that you are not a robot by clicking "I'm not a robot" below. Please make sure your browser supports JavaScript and cookies and that you are not blocking them from loading. For more information you can review the Terms of Service and Cookie Policy. Block reference ID: dd98e560-c584-11e8-8abb-8954603da81b """ Using Safari Version 11.1.2 (13605.3.8). I don't care enough to confirm I'm not a robot...
- maybeiambatman 8y agoAre you trying to access it through company VPN? I get similar issues when I do that from mine.
- FrancoisBosun 8y agoAh, true. I use Encrypt.me on a public Wifi. Perfectly legitimate use, and I get blocked. Oh well.
- giancarlostoro 8y agoWeird setup, our company VPN is only for incoming connections.
- clubm8 8y agoI worry this won't end well. Netflix already lets series run on too long. Shows that start out good will cater not only to the long tail that sees them through to the end, but a smaller segment who votes.
- nolok 8y ago> Netflix already lets series run on too long Says who ? I mean, you do realize their goal isn't and shouldn't be to make the best content possible, but to make the content that the most people would want to watch and be willing to keep their subscription active for ? If they let their series run that long, it's because it makes sense for them. Most people have a few thing we like where, when it turned to crap quality wise, we're still following along because we love it too much to let go. How many people have kept reading the Dune sequels when they were published despite the clear fall of quality and lack of focus compared to the original book ? It isn't different. (not that I'm not answering with your two other phrases, with which I agree, but to that one only)
- bicubic 8y ago> goal isn't and shouldn't be to make the best content possible, but to make the content that the most people would want to watch and be willing to keep their subscription active for That is dangerous due to second-order effects. Initially, this strategy will work and be quite effective at maxing revenue. But over time, consumer perception will shift to 'Netflix makes shows that run too long' just like GP post demonstrated. This reduces the perceived value of netflix content and makes consumers less likely to start watching future netflix content.
- clubm8 8y agoAlso, grandparent is assuming a bad season/sequel doesn't tarnish the original. For example, my perception of House of Cards has been diminished by the subpar later seasons.
- wild_preference 8y agoI don’t think they are assuming any more than you are, that your experience is shared to the point where it matters. The challenge in these discussions is how subjective this stuff is. If you didn’t like the season, it “went on too long.” If you did, then it didn’t. The volume of anecdotes in HN threads show how useless that information is. We like to think we’re all art critics, but that’s not how people watch television.
- adamnemecek 8y agoThis sounds like a bad idea. When consuming “art”, I generally care more about crazy shit I couldn’t come up with rather than my ideas.
- invalidusernam3 8y agoExactly, I want to be surprised
- in_cahoots 8y agoHow does this require you to rely on your own ideas? The entire show is still scripted, they’ve just written in multiple versions of ‘crazy shit’. It’s a far cry from giving you the pen and a blank piece of paper to finish the show.
- usrusr 8y agoGiven that it's supposed to be a Black Mirror special, I fully expect that there will not only be plenty of "crazy shit" in how they twist the user choice into something entirely unexpected (while still adhering to the precise wording of the choice option), but also that the episode topic itself will be user choice and how it can go horribly wrong. I'd see it primarily as a hype vehicle, not as a general indication of the direction Netflix will take in the future. (If I'm mistaken I fully support your argument)
- okmokmz 8y agoAs the Pontiac Aztek has shown, design by committee is not necessarily an effective approach and can lead to awful results due to the lack of a unified vision or goal. I imagine this will end similarly
- Brockenstein 8y agoA camel is a horse designed by committee.
- iainmerrick 8y agoWell, good luck using a horse when the requirements really do call for a camel.
- talmand 8y agoA horse was the result of the Design an Animal for Traveling Through the Desert Planning Committee.
- vlunkr 8y agoThis isn't the fans voting on an ending, you can just make choices as you watch the show, at least that's how I read it.
- jerf 8y ago"The foray into choose-your-own-adventure programming represents a big bet on a nascent form of entertainment known as interactive TV" Err, no, it represents a big bet on the really old form of entertainment known as "interactive TV", which is older than a great deal of the HN denizens reading this and replete with a history of failure despite multiple attempts. The question is, will this be the iPad of interactive TV, the implementation of a long-standing idea replete with failure that finally succeeds, or just another in the long line of failure? If the people involved are unaware of the history, the latter seems more likely, but I can't tell if those involved are unaware or just the person writing this article. "Interactive TV" as an idea isn't quite an instance of what I call the BOAC fallacy [1], but it's a related idea. The short version of that idea is that you can take a new technology and computerize it, and that it will be just exactly like the old technology with all the same affordances and capabilities and business structures, "But On A Computer!", instead of realizing that the act of transferring the technology to a computer will cause profound, sweeping changes. Interactive TV is like the stupidest, simplest idea of what adding computers to video can produce; the same video system, the same production mechanisms, the same delivery mechanisms, the same amount of control over the audience, But Now It's Interactive! In the shallowest possible way. Literally; in information theory terms audiences will be given single-digit bits worth of control over the result, and ultimately I would expect the experiences to be at least semi-optimized for the viewer still watching everything in the end, which reduces the choices down to an ordering choice rather than a "real" choice. Instead, the technology that permitted interactive television permitted video games, mobile apps that take interaction to a much higher level there as well, YouTube and all accompanying experiences, Twitch and all accompanying experiences, and so on, a rich ecosystem of options and opportunities that aren't just "it's video, hooked up to some quick time events! Wow!" Dragon's Lair is already a super-slick version of the "interactive TV" idea, and we consider it an interesting historical curiosity of an ultimately failed development line, not something content producers all strive to emulate. Given the nature of Black Mirror, it's a decent guess they'll at least exploit some artistic possibilities out of it, but in the end I doubt this will take off. Not because it's necessarily a "bad" idea, but because the space is already saturated with better ideas that are already multiple generations into their development cycle that will crowd it out, just as the newspaper web experience is now fundamentally different than the paper experience. (So much so that it's easy for young people today to not realize that the original promise of "newspapers on the web" was very often painted not as a modern hyperlinked site with comment sections, etc., but basically as downloading a PDF (in modern terms) of a newspaper, formatted identically to the modern newspaper, with people talking about how nice the experience would be of clicking "continued on Page 8" to go to page 8 instead of having to fuss with the pages. Particularly forward-thinking prognosticators might consider the possibility of a Letters to the Editor page being updated on a better-than-daily schedule, but still, nothing much like what we actually got. I'm speaking of the general press here; the very technical people made better predictions, but this idea was very much in general circulation.) [1]: http://www.jerf.org/iri/post/2916 http://www.jerf.org/iri/post/2916
- avar 8y agoFocus group endings are a thing TV and movie producers have been doing for decades. It's not surprising these new media companies are coming up with some version of that which makes sense in the digital era. I'm only surprised that it took so long.
- beat 8y agoIt doesn't even require focus groups. If you buy into Joseph Campbell's monomyth, or the more modern idea of tropes, then telling the stories people want and expect is so ingrained in our storytelling that it's hard to not do it. That's what amazed me most about Breaking Bad... how effectively it undermined our storytelling expectations.
- saudioger 8y agoEhhh, if there's a group of people who shouldn't decide how a show ends... it would definitely be fans of that show.
- faitswulff 8y agoRight? Talk about design by committee.
- daveFNbuck 8y agoThey're talking about releasing an episode with multiple variants and you choose which one you want to watch. Fans won't influence what gets released.
- saudioger 8y agoMy point still stands, I prefer the writer have to choose a singular ending.
- hackermailman 8y agoStudio bosses frequently have endings changed after audience tests, for example Army of Darkness, Titanic, Goodfellas ect. the writer(s) don't get to choose so I guess this Netflix scheme is more transparent but a possibly worse solution.
- saudioger 8y agoI'd also argue that those are bad changes, but I know where you're coming from.
- daveFNbuck 8y agoWould you rather be able to choose between the original and bad ending, or do you prefer the current system that forces the bad one as the only option?
- charlus 8y agoA little further along, but the BBC R&D have been working on something in a similar vein for a few years. https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/visual-perceptive-media https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/visual-perceptive-media
- pg_bot 8y ago"If you want Calculon to race to the laser gun battle in his hover-Ferarri, press 1. If you want Calculon to double-check his paperwork, press 2. Enter now." [1]: Violent Lasergun Battle [2]: Tedious Paperwork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1F4OduqrtQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1F4OduqrtQ
- spuz 8y agoI believe when Charlie Brooker first got on board with Netflix to produce the third season of Black Mirror, he made a suggestion to introduce some kind of interactive element to the show but Netflix decided it wasn't technically possible to do what he wanted at the time. I can't remember where I read or heard this but it got me thinking about what kind of innovation you could bring to a traditional TV series when it is distributed via the internet. For example you could show slightly different versions of the show to different viewers, of you could subtly alter the show when viewed on second or third viewing. Or the show could change depending on the time of year that you watch it. This kind of breaking of the fourth wall and breaking of fiction from reality could fit extremely well into a Black Mirror type of story. I'd love to hear what others suggest. As far as interactivity, and 'choose-your-own-adventure' style of story telling I think that will probably get boring pretty quick. We already have this kind of story telling with games such as Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls and while many people view those games as innovative forms of cinematic games, I would say they are pretty tedious and non-immersive forms of cinema.
- Leszek 8y agoNot to mention, the recently gone bankrupt Telltale, which suffered from decisions that claimed to make a difference to the story, but which really did nothing to the overarching plot (e.g. you choose to save character A instead of B, A is soon killed anyway).
- the_af 8y agoI've been playing their game The Walking Dead Season 1 and yes, it's mostly the illusion of choice, not real choice. But it's also surprisingly convincing during your first play (characters remember choices you made; they are either friendly or hostile depending on how you treated them; some show up later and some don't; etc). It's only after you replay the game that you see underneath and realize it's all mostly cosmetic, and that you cannot make really meaningful choices.
- stordoff 8y agoIllusion of choice can definitely work -- some of my most memorable choices in games are where I _know_ it's the choice between a bad end or continuing-it works because _I_ had to actively make that choice -- but my problem with Telltale is that it dresses it in a way that makes it _seem_ like they are going to be far more impactful, and they rarely are, and there's often a second event to "correct" the choice (e.g. you saved Person A, here's where they die anyway). It breaks the illusion of choice. You don't need big branching paths for choice to matter, it mattering in the moment is enough, but Telltale's way of making a big deal of choices makes you realise that _nothing_ ever _actually_ matters. It undermines that in the moment nature; they'd be better off just not making you expect it to come up again.
- gcb0 8y agoNetflix is dead. their content quality is already "daytime cable tv" quality. and this proves they have no good product people anymore.
- dimillian 8y agoReally? The only real contender to Netflix content is HBO. I have yet to find a new relevant TV shows to watch which is not from Netflix or HBO.
- scrollaway 8y agoUSA Network used to have some pretty good stuff. Some of it turned very repetitive (Burn Notice, Suits, ...) because they don't know when to end series, but they did produce some really high quality series, especially if you're willing to look past the repetitiveness. I don't know where their quality is at, nowadays. HBO is just leagues ahead of everything else.
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- keiraarts 8y agoYou might not be part of their target audience!
- r00fus 8y agoI love Netflix because a lot of their shows are translated in multiple languages. It's a lot more palatable for me to allow the kids 20m more if it's "en français". 2nd language learners greatly benefit from translated content. Sometimes we even discuss how the content was translated a bit differently from the original...
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoWill I be given an executive producer credit and residuals for my creative input in the choice of the ending? I’m not doing your job for you for free, Netflix. >:|
- nicklaf 8y agoUsers all separately picking endings to their shows, so that they never venture beyond what they want to see? Sounds a bit like a Black Mirror episode.
- black6 8y agoNow I'm intrigued about the meta-ness of the idea WRT Black Mirror...
- vlunkr 8y ago> It releases the same 25-minute sitcoms, hourlong documentaries and two-hour movies as other TV networks. I actually don't think this is true. If you actually look at their original programming they aren't constrained by the same things as traditional TV. They aren't bound to specific episode lengths, or writing around commercial breaks, or refreshing the viewer on what happened last week, etc. Those might not seem like a big deal, but IMO they are more meaningful than a choose-your-own-adventure gimmick, which will certainly not become mainstream.
- dwighttk 8y agoI wish they would stop being constrained by making me push the "skip intro" button
- onemoresoop 8y agoIt will be a fun interesting mess. Imagine watchers getting completely opposing messages from the show and not being able to discuss it coherently unless they specify which version they watched. And who will watch all the versions will be as bemused as the ones who never watched it. Open endedness is a far easier solution imo.
- plg 8y agoThis was a thing when I was in middle school, but for books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_Your_Own_Adventure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_Your_Own_Adventure They were all the rage
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- wmeredith 8y agoWould you consider any of these books good, beyond the novelty?
- ecolonsmak 8y agothe R A Montgomery books were good, I particularly liked the Trio series, about a fractured America during a future civil war.
- dopeboy 8y agoGoosebumps did this in the early 2000s. 11 year old me was a fan.
- ionised 8y agoI liked the Fighting Fantasy ones by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone.
- Boulth 8y agoSorcery books are especially good. The mobile adaptation by Inkle available on Android and iPhone is also high quality. I never thought text game would consume so much of my time! :)
- ionised 8y agoI've been thinking of picking up Sorcery on Steam. I never managed to get stuck into those books during their peak.
- partiallypro 8y agoDidn't SyFy, or someone do something like this a few years ago with a show that was message board driven? This also reminds me of the Quantum Break on Xbox.
- liftbigweights 8y agoSo a TV version of RPGs? If it proves to be a success, I wonder if they'll make the beginning and middle interactive as well? Then why watch TV when RPGs are so much better?
- SCAQTony 8y agoPopulism meets art? No, thank you. Group think and optional solutions should have nothing to do with the telling of meaningful stories.
- pawelmurias 8y agoArt? Did you even read the post title? It's netflix.
- SCAQTony 8y agoNetflix has never won an Oscar but they have done pretty darn well at the Emmys: 225 nominations , 43 wins — Acting: 6, Writing: 6.
- joemaller1 8y agolol. I clicked through hoping this would be a way to disable autoplay and just end a show with the credits then dump back to the menus. The current "here's what's next" feels like force-feeding and I always dive for the remote to disable the post-show stuff.
- black6 8y agoDon’t video games already fill the niche for interactive video-based entertainment?
- postit 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voc%C3%AA_Decide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voc%C3%AA_Decide brazilians did that first.
- derekp7 8y agoAs long as they do it sparingly, it may be ok. But going from the experience of the between-seasons episode of Stretch Armstrong that one of the grandkids likes to watch, I'd be really annoyed if they did that treatment to any of my favorite shows. First, when I sit down on the couch to watch TV, I want to relax and have the entertainment fed to me. If I want to play a video game, I'd fire up the Atari system. Really don't want to be jumping for the remote and make a decision several times in the show, and keep track of all the plot lines so I can see everything. Now if you can set it to not prompt you, but randomize each pivot point, and / or give each permutation a number that you can select at the beginning, then it may be interesting to watch the episode multiple times to catch each variation.
- imgabe 8y agoThis sounds awful. This is a problem I have with a lot of Netflix's content. It's nobody's baby. There's no singular vision behind it where a person came up with a story they want to tell. Instead it's algorithmically generated like "Here's some things that popular things have in common, write a story around these elements". That can get something passable sometimes, but mostly not. Most great art is the product of one mind at the most basic level. Of course with something like a TV show or movie there are thousands of people involved, but there has to a captain to the ship, so to speak. Otherwise it just floats around aimlessly because multiple people can be pulling it in different directions. It's riskier, because if that person is bad, the whole thing is going to turn out bad, but it's the only way to get something truly good.
- izaidi 8y agoThat's not how Netflix content is written. There are sometimes algorithm-driven decisions on which projects to acquire and finance, but once they buy something, the creators have full control to execute their vision -- much moreso than with a conventional network or studio.
- kough 8y agoNone of the content that makes it to mass media -- film, tv, whatever -- is the unique vision of a sole creator. People are foisting their fears about this onto Netflix, and find evidence of "writing-by-data" in its content, because they are looking for it. No one wants to pull down the curtain and look this closely at the rest of the media we consume because it would ruin the illusion that it's worth watching. Like most other media, video has lost most of its cult value.
- eschutte2 8y agoOnce it's known that the decisions on what to acquire are algorithm-driven, which projects do you think creators are going to pitch to Netflix?
- elicash 8y agoThis argument reminds me a lot of Roger Ebert's argument that video games can never be art. https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-art https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-ne... He says, "My notion is that it grows better the more it improves or alters nature through an passage through what we might call the artist's soul, or vision." In fact, the article even notes "two of the projects are adaptations of video games!" Maybe one reason why in my view there aren't a lot of great movies based on video games is because there's something missing in the form that Netflix can improve upon. Hacker News shouldn't be a place where innovation is always so immediately viewed so skeptically. Most new ideas will fail, but shouldn't it be encouraged anyway? Taking a step back, and more to the substance of your point, I don't think participatory art is any less one person's vision. You look at something like Yayoi Kusama's Obliteration Rooms and you come away with a very clear vision from her. In the same way, what Black Mirror is trying to do with this experiment by incorporating audience participation seems to be very much a part of the story that they are trying to tell. On the children shows, I think you are actually outside of this debate because the question is more what's better from an educational standpoint than from an artistic standpoint.
- dwighttk 8y agoI remember seeing a audience decided show at the BSA Jamboree in 1997. I don't remember anything about the content... I can't even recall if it was a video or a live action play, I just remember voting and being willing to think there was a chance the voting was rigged because one of the decisions went a different way than I voted.
- chooseaname 8y agoUgh. Netflix, please don't jump the shark and do this. I want to watch what actual writers have come up with.
- tomjen3 8y agoThat seems to miss the point: I want to be surprised by the endings, or relive a great moment or quote, or I want to turn of my mind for a while -- these are basically my reasons to Netflix. This would remove both.
- tcgv 8y agoWe had a 90s TV show in Brazil called "You decide"[1]. One hour-long independent episodes with two pre-recorded endings. During the show people voted in their prefered ending by phone. The one with more votes would be displayed. The show was mildly popular, since I was a child back then I don't remember why they dropped it from the schedule. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voc%C3%AA_Decide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voc%C3%AA_Decide
- andyidsinga 8y agohas anyone seen the end of every MacGruber snl skit?. done. you're welcome netflix ;)
- krylon 8y agoThe best part of a good story is when it genuinely surprises me, does something I totally did not expect.
- jobigoud 8y agoI read a lot of "book in which you are the hero" (called "choose your own adventure" I think in the US) in my early years. I'm always surprised the niche for this type of work in so small and revolves around the same themes and for a young audience. I think the fear of missing out on the alternate stories might be a factor but nothing would prevent you from reading all branches. Where are the "choose your own romance", the multiverse science fiction, the time travel stories where you pick the changes the hero does to the past, etc.
- criveros 8y agoNetflix has created some of the best TV shows I have watched in the past few years. Strangers things, Maniac, The End of the F*ing World, Narcos, On my block, Master of none, El Chapo, Ozark, Glow, Disenchanted, Black mirror, Dare Devil, 13 reasons why, Jessica Jones, The Punisher, A series of unfortunate events, The OA, Orange is the new black Those are just some of the ones I can recall at the moment. Only other shows that I use popcorn time to watch are Game of thrones and Homeland.
- stevew20 8y agoYaaaasssss!!!! Boaty McBoatface! We get to do Boaty McBoatface! The American Public will finally have it's definitive chance to show the world just how truly flippant and uncouth it is! I really cannot wait
- stevew20 8y agoWe get to do Boaty McBoatface! The American Public will finally have it's definitive chance to show the world just how truly flippant and uncouth it is! I really cannot wait!
- alurpalz 8y ago"What do you think Linda?" Reminds me of the scene from Fahrenheit 451. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVhqtj83U8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVhqtj83U8