5 ms·

The parent did not dispute that diet can have a significant effect on health, including mental health, only the particular examples you mentioned. Lithium in pa

The parent did not dispute that diet can have a significant effect on health, including mental health, only the particular examples you mentioned. Lithium in particular is a well known case that's been researched and has plenty of supporting literature. I have not seen comparable studies supporting the use of rosemary or Vitamin C for the indications you mentioned and the latter in particular seems unlikely unless you had a specific deficiency. Have you seen any literature for those examples?

DoreenMichele 8y ago
This is one of the links in my original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867 I've already stated that these decisions are based on research. I don't plan to try to "prove" anything here to people being dismissive of me rather than genuinely interested in what I know. I deal with far too much of that and it never, ever goes good places. The parent did not dispute that diet can have a significant effect on health, including mental health, only the particular examples you mentioned. Which boils down to claiming that my consistent observations of my experience over many years can be explained by the power of me believing it will work, but cannot be explained by actual chemistry. This is an incredibly tedious argument. To my mind, it is on par with advocating that we should all clap to bring Tinkerbell back. And I cannot comprehend how anyone who sees themselves as scientific can genuinely insist in earnest that the power of belief has more influence over my physical body than the power of food chemistry. For the record, I have a genetic disorder that predisposes me to become rapidly deficient in various nutrients, among other things. I will add that "placebos" are typically sugar pills and sugar has chemical impact on the brain akin to an opiate. So there is zero reason to believe that "placebo effect" is actually due to the power of belief and not due to food chemistry impacting brain activity. https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/the-science-and-substance-behind-your-emotional-eating https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/the-science-and-su...
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  > And I cannot comprehend how anyone who sees themselves as scientific can genuinely insist in earnest that the power of belief has more influence over my physical body than the power of food chemistry. It would appear belief can have an extreme severe acute impact on our bodies. It follows then belief can also have chronic affects. People can die simply because they've given up, life has beaten them and they feel defeat is inescapable, according to new research. The study, by Dr. John Leach, a senior research fellow at the University of Portsmouth, is the first to describe the clinical markers for 'give-up-itis', a term used to describe what is known medically as psychogenic death. https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-people-die.html https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-people-die.html HN discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18083509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18083509 It appears you didn’t comment on that one, so perhaps you missed it? Also, it stands to reason the affect of foods, herbs, essential oils, what have you, on people probably follows a bell curve distribution and therefore there are likely to be extreme outliers. This may explain why some people experience significant clinical effects from, say, Rosemary and Sage, while others not. This brings me to something I like to highlight: the difference between public health policy and individualised medicine. It might not be sound public health policy to put essential oils in the water, although I’m not aware of any rigorous studies, but may be sound advice for a component of individualised wholistic care. Disclosure: I’ve dabbled in nutritional and herbal medicine, with four years of formal study and the resultant certifications, here in Australia. For what it’s worth.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Thank you. It's a reasonable comment. Unfortunately, in the context of multiple people being incredibly dismissive, it somewhat comes across as just another dismissal, though I sincerely believe you don't mean it that way. For context, my official diagnosis is atypical cystic fibrosis. I was diagnosed a bit over 17 years ago. I had been bedridden for several months and had a hole in my left lung. Classical CF accounts for about 1/3 of all adult lung transplants and 1/2 of all pediatric lung transplants in the US. It has a very low life expectancy and you typically take about $100k worth of drugs annually to manage it with no hope of actually getting well. So I have a lot of baggage from internet strangers insisting that the hole in my lung closing and my ability to get off multiple prescription drugs etc is obviously due to placebo effect and couldn't possibly be due to extensive dietary and lifestyle changes, nor could I possibly actually know a fucking thing of any value at all, what with being a woman and former homemaker. I'm leaving this discussion now. Nothing personal against you. I'm just fed up with people attacking my personal anecdotes in a way that doesn't automatically get done to other people who say "I have X diagnosis and I do Y thing for it." Other people can talk about their health and how they manage it without everyone piling on to inform them they are a nutcase who imagined the entire thing. Other points I make are consistently ignored in order to focus on what I said about my firsthand experience and tell me that I don't know what I experienced. Some internet stranger has more expertise in my life than I have. Ugh.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

This is one of the links in my original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867 I've already stated that these decisions are based on research. I don't plan to try to "prove" anything here to people being dismissive of me rather than genuinely interested in what I know. I deal with far too much of that and it never, ever goes good places. The parent did not dispute that diet can have a significant effect on health, including mental health, only the particular examples you mentioned. Which boils down to claiming that my consistent observations of my experience over many years can be explained by the power of me believing it will work, but cannot be explained by actual chemistry. This is an incredibly tedious argument. To my mind, it is on par with advocating that we should all clap to bring Tinkerbell back. And I cannot comprehend how anyone who sees themselves as scientific can genuinely insist in earnest that the power of belief has more influence over my physical body than the power of food chemistry. For the record, I have a genetic disorder that predisposes me to become rapidly deficient in various nutrients, among other things. I will add that "placebos" are typically sugar pills and sugar has chemical impact on the brain akin to an opiate. So there is zero reason to believe that "placebo effect" is actually due to the power of belief and not due to food chemistry impacting brain activity. https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/the-science-and-substance-behind-your-emotional-eating https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/the-science-and-su...

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> And I cannot comprehend how anyone who sees themselves as scientific can genuinely insist in earnest that the power of belief has more influence over my physical body than the power of food chemistry. It would appear belief can have an extreme severe acute impact on our bodies. It follows then belief can also have chronic affects. People can die simply because they've given up, life has beaten them and they feel defeat is inescapable, according to new research. The study, by Dr. John Leach, a senior research fellow at the University of Portsmouth, is the first to describe the clinical markers for 'give-up-itis', a term used to describe what is known medically as psychogenic death. https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-people-die.html https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-people-die.html HN discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18083509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18083509 It appears you didn’t comment on that one, so perhaps you missed it? Also, it stands to reason the affect of foods, herbs, essential oils, what have you, on people probably follows a bell curve distribution and therefore there are likely to be extreme outliers. This may explain why some people experience significant clinical effects from, say, Rosemary and Sage, while others not. This brings me to something I like to highlight: the difference between public health policy and individualised medicine. It might not be sound public health policy to put essential oils in the water, although I’m not aware of any rigorous studies, but may be sound advice for a component of individualised wholistic care. Disclosure: I’ve dabbled in nutritional and herbal medicine, with four years of formal study and the resultant certifications, here in Australia. For what it’s worth.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Thank you. It's a reasonable comment. Unfortunately, in the context of multiple people being incredibly dismissive, it somewhat comes across as just another dismissal, though I sincerely believe you don't mean it that way. For context, my official diagnosis is atypical cystic fibrosis. I was diagnosed a bit over 17 years ago. I had been bedridden for several months and had a hole in my left lung. Classical CF accounts for about 1/3 of all adult lung transplants and 1/2 of all pediatric lung transplants in the US. It has a very low life expectancy and you typically take about $100k worth of drugs annually to manage it with no hope of actually getting well. So I have a lot of baggage from internet strangers insisting that the hole in my lung closing and my ability to get off multiple prescription drugs etc is obviously due to placebo effect and couldn't possibly be due to extensive dietary and lifestyle changes, nor could I possibly actually know a fucking thing of any value at all, what with being a woman and former homemaker. I'm leaving this discussion now. Nothing personal against you. I'm just fed up with people attacking my personal anecdotes in a way that doesn't automatically get done to other people who say "I have X diagnosis and I do Y thing for it." Other people can talk about their health and how they manage it without everyone piling on to inform them they are a nutcase who imagined the entire thing. Other points I make are consistently ignored in order to focus on what I said about my firsthand experience and tell me that I don't know what I experienced. Some internet stranger has more expertise in my life than I have. Ugh.