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Kotler's "Marketing Management" remains the most definitive text on the practice of marketing. Many people - including some on HN - mistakenly equate marketing

Kotler's "Marketing Management" remains the most definitive text on the practice of marketing. Many people - including some on HN - mistakenly equate marketing with only advertising or, more broadly, marketing communications. In truth that's only a small portion of the discipline. https://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Management-14th-Philip-Kotler/dp/0132102927 https://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Management-14th-Philip-Kotl...

vincentmarle 8y ago
I’m curious to know why you think it’s so good. I’ve studied marketing in the early 2000’s and Kotler’s Marketing Management was pretty much the only book we’ve read, but after college I didn’t feel I could apply much of its lessons to the companies I’ve built myself or the companies I’ve worked for. Most of Kotler’s material is based on how big traditional brands have done marketing, but that wasn’t helpful to me when I was working on early-stage tech startups. Granted, I wasn’t the most dedicated student at the time, so maybe I just should read it again, but it would be helpful to know what you got out of it.
- maroonblazer 8y ago
  His framework for how to think about bringing a product to market is what I found most valuable. What's the competitive environment? Who is the customer (in the most specific sense)? How will the product compete against other offerings? How is it priced relative to the competition? How do you talk about the product - i.e. communicate its value? How does one think about growing the market for the product? These are questions any product or brand need to answer, regardless of size.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    I'd argue that these fundamental questions are elaborated upon in most contemporary textbooks. In practice, however, young entrepreneurs creating business models around apps need to deal with a whole range of both general and specific issues that need to be addressed and Kotler is of limited use here.
    - davidivadavid 8y ago
      That would also be my criticism of Kotler and Keller. It's good to learn about the marketing lingo, but it doesn't teach you how to do something concrete at a professional level (create a marketing strategy, write persuasive copy, etc.).
      - libertine 8y ago
        Well it gives you the tools and frameworks to build your own strategy, that's why it's so great. If you went to university to study marketing, like some of us did, strategy would be put to practice in classes dedicated to it, and all at to be supported - either by theory (like Kotler's) or by research. Copyrighting is one tool of one of the marketing mix "P"'s - Promotion. If you want to learn about copyrighting read Ogilvy - he was very good with communication and copy.
    - libertine 8y ago
      This book lays the foundation - and I've worked with FMCGs, tech, media, pharma and I've yet to find an industry where Kotler's principles do not apply. That's why a good marketer should be able to work within any industry - it's pretty much: product, price, promotion and placement. This has been reinvented, rebranded, and expanded - but in reality this is the ultimate reduction you can get your marketing to.
wjnc 8y ago
Do read How Brands Grow by Byron Sharp as a somewhat dissenting, at least opiniated read on branding and marketing.
libertine 8y ago
This is it. And you're completly right - self proclaimed marketers reduce marketing to tools of one of the areas of marketing like you said : Promotion/Communication . SEO, PPC, Content Marketing, Influencer Marketing, Social Media Marketing... the list goes on... are just tools. They serve part of 1/4 of what marketing is broadly speaking. Now I'm not saying those shouldn't be areas of expertise - they should! But a marketing manager should build/maintain a strategy taking into account everything - not just a specific part.
- purplezooey 8y ago
  Let's not forget a keen ability to subtly lie and confuse people. Very important in marketing.
  - libertine 8y ago
    I believe that's bound to the people not to the practice. If there's a need for a brand to lie then there's something wrong or missing - and that's not sustainable in the long run. Plus, you shouldn't expose your brands to liability - for example that's why all big brands have their advertising communication evaluated by legal departments. It will not go live if legal doesn't approve it.

vincentmarle 8y ago

I’m curious to know why you think it’s so good. I’ve studied marketing in the early 2000’s and Kotler’s Marketing Management was pretty much the only book we’ve read, but after college I didn’t feel I could apply much of its lessons to the companies I’ve built myself or the companies I’ve worked for. Most of Kotler’s material is based on how big traditional brands have done marketing, but that wasn’t helpful to me when I was working on early-stage tech startups. Granted, I wasn’t the most dedicated student at the time, so maybe I just should read it again, but it would be helpful to know what you got out of it.

maroonblazer 8y ago
His framework for how to think about bringing a product to market is what I found most valuable. What's the competitive environment? Who is the customer (in the most specific sense)? How will the product compete against other offerings? How is it priced relative to the competition? How do you talk about the product - i.e. communicate its value? How does one think about growing the market for the product? These are questions any product or brand need to answer, regardless of size.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  I'd argue that these fundamental questions are elaborated upon in most contemporary textbooks. In practice, however, young entrepreneurs creating business models around apps need to deal with a whole range of both general and specific issues that need to be addressed and Kotler is of limited use here.
  - davidivadavid 8y ago
    That would also be my criticism of Kotler and Keller. It's good to learn about the marketing lingo, but it doesn't teach you how to do something concrete at a professional level (create a marketing strategy, write persuasive copy, etc.).
    - libertine 8y ago
      Well it gives you the tools and frameworks to build your own strategy, that's why it's so great. If you went to university to study marketing, like some of us did, strategy would be put to practice in classes dedicated to it, and all at to be supported - either by theory (like Kotler's) or by research. Copyrighting is one tool of one of the marketing mix "P"'s - Promotion. If you want to learn about copyrighting read Ogilvy - he was very good with communication and copy.
  - libertine 8y ago
    This book lays the foundation - and I've worked with FMCGs, tech, media, pharma and I've yet to find an industry where Kotler's principles do not apply. That's why a good marketer should be able to work within any industry - it's pretty much: product, price, promotion and placement. This has been reinvented, rebranded, and expanded - but in reality this is the ultimate reduction you can get your marketing to.

wjnc 8y ago

Do read How Brands Grow by Byron Sharp as a somewhat dissenting, at least opiniated read on branding and marketing.

libertine 8y ago

This is it. And you're completly right - self proclaimed marketers reduce marketing to tools of one of the areas of marketing like you said : Promotion/Communication . SEO, PPC, Content Marketing, Influencer Marketing, Social Media Marketing... the list goes on... are just tools. They serve part of 1/4 of what marketing is broadly speaking. Now I'm not saying those shouldn't be areas of expertise - they should! But a marketing manager should build/maintain a strategy taking into account everything - not just a specific part.

purplezooey 8y ago
Let's not forget a keen ability to subtly lie and confuse people. Very important in marketing.
- libertine 8y ago
  I believe that's bound to the people not to the practice. If there's a need for a brand to lie then there's something wrong or missing - and that's not sustainable in the long run. Plus, you shouldn't expose your brands to liability - for example that's why all big brands have their advertising communication evaluated by legal departments. It will not go live if legal doesn't approve it.