7 ms·

> Also... no Linux version? Really? You're criticizing an indie game developer who feels he just wasted 3 years of his life making a failure, for not spending

by meritt 8y ago

> Also... no Linux version? Really? You're criticizing an indie game developer who feels he just wasted 3 years of his life making a failure, for not spending the extra year or whatever it'd take for it to be cross-platform?

jhasse 8y ago
If he's using C++ he is probably using a cross-platform library like SDL2. So porting to Linux shouldn't take longer than a day really.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- bschwindHN 8y ago
  I agree, C++ projects are quite easy to get running on Linux. I've done cross platform C++ game stuff and almost always had more trouble with Windows than I ever did with Linux. MacOS was pretty annoying in some cases too, actually...
sweden 8y ago
I would say that nowadays is not that difficult to have a game that works on both Windows and Linux. Also, it is a legit thing to point out when and developer complains about the lack of sales.
- bitL 8y ago
  Seriously, how many Linux users you know that pay for software? How much would that increase indie's sales? By 2?
  - Impossible 8y ago
    I think in OPs case a Linux port could have a non-trivial affect on sales because he's on the front page of hackernews and people that see this post and feel sorry for him will buy his game and not play it because he supports Linux.
  - tokai 8y ago
    The humblebundle sales showed clearly that linux users are ready to pay much more for video games than windows users are. I have personally used hundreds of dollars on linux compatible games.
    - Impossible 8y ago
      When was the last time you paid for an indie humble bundle though? I think it proved that for a short moment a very small percentage of users were supporting games at a higher rate than the majority in order to support a cause, but once the novelty wore off they went back to not caring. I just don't think there are enough Linux users out there that are also regular gamers to make Linux support worth it for most titles. Sure there are exceptions especially if you're building a game that disproportionately appeals to that audience (like KSP or Zactronics), but in most cases its not really worth it.
      - tokai 8y ago
        >When was the last time you paid for an indie humble bundle though? Some years ago, but that is explained by a sharp decline in the quality of games included in their offers (which was about the time they dropped ensuring that their bundles were compatible with the three platforms). A better question would be when I last spend money on (game) software for linux. The answer is 28 hours ago. I concur that the market is small. But when your sales are small too, it is not smart to throw away access to a market with a higher proportion of dedicated users and consumers. From the perspective of tech, less time may have been "wasted" on infinitroid if the developer used more off the shelve solutions that would help with multiplatform targeting. In the end we are just basing our arguments on our gut feelings. I doubt very much that Valve would push as hard for gaming on linux as they are doing if they didn't see the potentials of sales for the platform in their data. But time will tell.
- meritt 8y ago
  There's not a ton of information available on the breakdown of sales by platform, but the data that is out there shows Linux sales usually compromise ~2-4% for cross-platform games [1]. If you get linux support "for free" by utilizing an engine, then absolutely go for it, but even major companies with massively popular games are still skipping out on first-class Linux support [2], due to the low market share. [1] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-statistics-from-multiple-developers-part-5 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-stat... [2] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/president-of-blizzard-responds-to-the-linux-petition-petition-owner-creates-childish-response.5080 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/president-of-blizzard...
  - seabrookmx 8y ago
    It's also exponentially harder to make a Linux port for a AAA game than for an Indie game, for many reasons. The most obvious ones being that most indie games are made with an off the shelf cross platform engine (Unity, unreal), and that AAA titles require a lot more hardware resources, and optimization of this usage is often platform specific (what helps OpenGL might not help DirectX, etc).
izacus 8y ago
With engines like Unity and Unreal, supporting multiple platforms (including modern consoles like PS4, Xbox One and Switch) has a level of complexity of writing a portable Electron app. As an indie developer, you need to maximize that market coverage (and develop with portability in mind). Having said that, it's probably not the primary reason why his game failed.
- rolleiflex 8y ago
  - Linux desktop market share is tiny. My own app supports Linux, but I'm 100% aware that I'm doing it at a loss in every possible way, it's a passion project. Bang for buck is terrible, so you need to justify as a labour of love. - The amount of pain one needs to endure to get a Linux desktop to work as it should is huge, and there are several competing packaging providers with no clear winner, and all have very much hidden gotchas that they do a poor job of explaining ahead of time. - Making a cross-platform Electron app that behaves well and up to to snuff on Windows, Mac and Linux is not even close to easy. The fact that JS theoretically works on all three platforms buys you way less than most people think. Source: I'm making a cross platform Electron app that supports Linux.
  - honkycat 8y ago
    I disagree with your assertion Linux desktops are hard to set up. You plug in your Ubuntu drive and install it, it detects your video card and install the drivers. Everything just works, when people rag on Linux desktops they are talking about Linux from 6 years ago. A ton of effort has been put into making the experience smooth and there are multiple projects to make it even more user friendly like elementary os and popos
    - PinkMilkshake 8y ago
      I think your parent meant "The amount of pain one needs to endure to get a Linux desktop [app] to work as it should is huge"
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

by meritt 8y ago

jhasse 8y ago

If he's using C++ he is probably using a cross-platform library like SDL2. So porting to Linux shouldn't take longer than a day really.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
bschwindHN 8y ago
I agree, C++ projects are quite easy to get running on Linux. I've done cross platform C++ game stuff and almost always had more trouble with Windows than I ever did with Linux. MacOS was pretty annoying in some cases too, actually...

sweden 8y ago

I would say that nowadays is not that difficult to have a game that works on both Windows and Linux. Also, it is a legit thing to point out when and developer complains about the lack of sales.

bitL 8y ago
Seriously, how many Linux users you know that pay for software? How much would that increase indie's sales? By 2?
- Impossible 8y ago
  I think in OPs case a Linux port could have a non-trivial affect on sales because he's on the front page of hackernews and people that see this post and feel sorry for him will buy his game and not play it because he supports Linux.
- tokai 8y ago
  The humblebundle sales showed clearly that linux users are ready to pay much more for video games than windows users are. I have personally used hundreds of dollars on linux compatible games.
  - Impossible 8y ago
    When was the last time you paid for an indie humble bundle though? I think it proved that for a short moment a very small percentage of users were supporting games at a higher rate than the majority in order to support a cause, but once the novelty wore off they went back to not caring. I just don't think there are enough Linux users out there that are also regular gamers to make Linux support worth it for most titles. Sure there are exceptions especially if you're building a game that disproportionately appeals to that audience (like KSP or Zactronics), but in most cases its not really worth it.
    - tokai 8y ago
      >When was the last time you paid for an indie humble bundle though? Some years ago, but that is explained by a sharp decline in the quality of games included in their offers (which was about the time they dropped ensuring that their bundles were compatible with the three platforms). A better question would be when I last spend money on (game) software for linux. The answer is 28 hours ago. I concur that the market is small. But when your sales are small too, it is not smart to throw away access to a market with a higher proportion of dedicated users and consumers. From the perspective of tech, less time may have been "wasted" on infinitroid if the developer used more off the shelve solutions that would help with multiplatform targeting. In the end we are just basing our arguments on our gut feelings. I doubt very much that Valve would push as hard for gaming on linux as they are doing if they didn't see the potentials of sales for the platform in their data. But time will tell.
meritt 8y ago
There's not a ton of information available on the breakdown of sales by platform, but the data that is out there shows Linux sales usually compromise ~2-4% for cross-platform games [1]. If you get linux support "for free" by utilizing an engine, then absolutely go for it, but even major companies with massively popular games are still skipping out on first-class Linux support [2], due to the low market share. [1] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-statistics-from-multiple-developers-part-5 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-stat... [2] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/president-of-blizzard-responds-to-the-linux-petition-petition-owner-creates-childish-response.5080 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/president-of-blizzard...
- seabrookmx 8y ago
  It's also exponentially harder to make a Linux port for a AAA game than for an Indie game, for many reasons. The most obvious ones being that most indie games are made with an off the shelf cross platform engine (Unity, unreal), and that AAA titles require a lot more hardware resources, and optimization of this usage is often platform specific (what helps OpenGL might not help DirectX, etc).

izacus 8y ago

With engines like Unity and Unreal, supporting multiple platforms (including modern consoles like PS4, Xbox One and Switch) has a level of complexity of writing a portable Electron app. As an indie developer, you need to maximize that market coverage (and develop with portability in mind). Having said that, it's probably not the primary reason why his game failed.

rolleiflex 8y ago
- Linux desktop market share is tiny. My own app supports Linux, but I'm 100% aware that I'm doing it at a loss in every possible way, it's a passion project. Bang for buck is terrible, so you need to justify as a labour of love. - The amount of pain one needs to endure to get a Linux desktop to work as it should is huge, and there are several competing packaging providers with no clear winner, and all have very much hidden gotchas that they do a poor job of explaining ahead of time. - Making a cross-platform Electron app that behaves well and up to to snuff on Windows, Mac and Linux is not even close to easy. The fact that JS theoretically works on all three platforms buys you way less than most people think. Source: I'm making a cross platform Electron app that supports Linux.
- honkycat 8y ago
  I disagree with your assertion Linux desktops are hard to set up. You plug in your Ubuntu drive and install it, it detects your video card and install the drivers. Everything just works, when people rag on Linux desktops they are talking about Linux from 6 years ago. A ton of effort has been put into making the experience smooth and there are multiple projects to make it even more user friendly like elementary os and popos
  - PinkMilkshake 8y ago
    I think your parent meant "The amount of pain one needs to endure to get a Linux desktop [app] to work as it should is huge"
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]