2 ms·

You are missing Winforms and several XAML frameworks (WPF, Silverlight, WinRT and UWP). Even if you use one of the XAML frameworks porting any app of decent siz

You are missing Winforms and several XAML frameworks (WPF, Silverlight, WinRT and UWP). Even if you use one of the XAML frameworks porting any app of decent size is really hard to almost impossible. I think trouble started with .NET. Since then there was a change in direction almost every 2-3 years. Edit: Forgot WinJS...

pjmlp 8y ago
Because before the reorganization, .NET used to be part of DevTools, while C++ and related tooling was part of WinDev. So since .NET was introduced there has been an ongoing power struggle between the two camps regarding how the future of Windows development should look like. The whole Longhorn/Vista debacle was more a side effect of those political issues than actual technical problems. Likewise with lack of management support for bringing Singularity and Midori outcomes into mainstream Windows, or trying to replace .NET with WinRT. The reorganization was supposed to help sort out such silos, apparently it wasn't successful at that.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I guess the MS org chart is still accurate: http://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big-tech-companies-plus-an-enhancement/ http://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big-...
slededit 8y ago
Everything lives on top of win32. Even UWP is a wrapper around win32, if you look at the modules list you'll see gdi.dll in the list. In a sense the rest of these frameworks are all just libraries. You can choose the one that makes your life easier but win32 will do the heavy lifting. Because of this its relatively easy for them to add support for new features to the various frameworks. They just wire up the win32 calls as necessary.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I don't think that's correct. In Winforms and MFC every control is a Win32 window. As far as i know WPF has only one root window and then does all the drawing by itself on a canvas.
  - slededit 8y ago
    How it uses windows is orthogonal to whether it’s based upon win32 APIs. The framework may add some of its own controls, but copy+paste and even touch hit testing are win32. This is very unlike say KDE vs Gnome. I used to work on the office UWP apps, and I’ve seen the underlying code.

pjmlp 8y ago

Because before the reorganization, .NET used to be part of DevTools, while C++ and related tooling was part of WinDev. So since .NET was introduced there has been an ongoing power struggle between the two camps regarding how the future of Windows development should look like. The whole Longhorn/Vista debacle was more a side effect of those political issues than actual technical problems. Likewise with lack of management support for bringing Singularity and Midori outcomes into mainstream Windows, or trying to replace .NET with WinRT. The reorganization was supposed to help sort out such silos, apparently it wasn't successful at that.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I guess the MS org chart is still accurate: http://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big-tech-companies-plus-an-enhancement/ http://www.globalnerdy.com/2011/07/03/org-charts-of-the-big-...

slededit 8y ago

Everything lives on top of win32. Even UWP is a wrapper around win32, if you look at the modules list you'll see gdi.dll in the list. In a sense the rest of these frameworks are all just libraries. You can choose the one that makes your life easier but win32 will do the heavy lifting. Because of this its relatively easy for them to add support for new features to the various frameworks. They just wire up the win32 calls as necessary.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I don't think that's correct. In Winforms and MFC every control is a Win32 window. As far as i know WPF has only one root window and then does all the drawing by itself on a canvas.
- slededit 8y ago
  How it uses windows is orthogonal to whether it’s based upon win32 APIs. The framework may add some of its own controls, but copy+paste and even touch hit testing are win32. This is very unlike say KDE vs Gnome. I used to work on the office UWP apps, and I’ve seen the underlying code.