4 ms·

This is precisely why I despise startup culture. What about the risk for the workers and your customers? What are the grand innovations you think Europe couldn’

by hnkf 8y ago

This is precisely why I despise startup culture. What about the risk for the workers and your customers? What are the grand innovations you think Europe couldn’t produce because we’re more careful?

mk89 8y ago
Workers know what they are getting into. Customers know what they are buying. It's an ecosystem that lives on its own. Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy? It's no wonder that many Europeans tend to go and live in the USA for that reason.
- mirko22 8y ago
  That’s very presumptuous, there is loads of US people in Europe too... And you could argue if Google was startup back then or not. I would say not.
  - mk89 8y ago
    What about Amazon? And eBay? And Yahoo? Lots of US people in Europe, true. Doing software? I really really doubt it. Or they left for personal motivations. Leaving US for a developer is like leaving Ferrari for an automobile engineer. You can't top that. Anything else is a step backwards in terms of technology, unless you go to work for some institution - I see the university of Zürich is really advanced, for example. Also, the topic was about innovation, capital, etc. I would prefer not to go too much off topic.
- sgift 8y ago
  > Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy? Some of the biggest companies in the world are from Europe. All of them started as small companies. So, yeah, Google made in Europe is possible. Tech is not a special snowflake industry with other rules than everyone else.
  - mk89 8y ago
    Google made in Europe is possible, facts so far say otherwise, though. If you can mention one or two companies like that, it'd be great. Also, some of the biggest companies in the world are European, that's true. However, they are all but software companies (except for SAP, a b2b company). In Europe we are among the best in pharmaceuticals, cars, chemicals, etc. Sadly enough, software is nothing Europe is ahead with. The reason? In my opinion the fact that software is not tangible and innovation with software is a high risk business - often not scientific or rational. You need to try it out. Go and propose something like Snapchat to a European investor. The application for me is nonsense, I myself can't still see how it works, but it's valued billions. Did it have a business plan? Maybe. However I really doubt that it was 200 pages long. That's not something that the no-debt-at-all European mindset can deal with. I think it's partially cultural and partially historical. A sort of perfectionism that doesn't leave space to failure mixed with a world where corporations and lobbies are super protected and no matter what, they are always the winners and the way to do business. WhatsApp took 2-3 years before it became a standard messaging app. You can't always foresee it. It just happens. Others failed. Now everyone uses WhatsApp. Ps. I am European.
    - badpun 8y ago
      > Now everyone uses WhatsApp. Funnily, I only know one person who uses WhatsApp.
  - snovv_crash 8y ago
    Yes, but they aren't as young as Google. They were probably started 100+ years ago, when Europe was still hungry.

by hnkf 8y ago

mk89 8y ago

Workers know what they are getting into. Customers know what they are buying. It's an ecosystem that lives on its own. Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy? It's no wonder that many Europeans tend to go and live in the USA for that reason.

mirko22 8y ago
That’s very presumptuous, there is loads of US people in Europe too... And you could argue if Google was startup back then or not. I would say not.
- mk89 8y ago
  What about Amazon? And eBay? And Yahoo? Lots of US people in Europe, true. Doing software? I really really doubt it. Or they left for personal motivations. Leaving US for a developer is like leaving Ferrari for an automobile engineer. You can't top that. Anything else is a step backwards in terms of technology, unless you go to work for some institution - I see the university of Zürich is really advanced, for example. Also, the topic was about innovation, capital, etc. I would prefer not to go too much off topic.
sgift 8y ago
> Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy? Some of the biggest companies in the world are from Europe. All of them started as small companies. So, yeah, Google made in Europe is possible. Tech is not a special snowflake industry with other rules than everyone else.
- mk89 8y ago
  Google made in Europe is possible, facts so far say otherwise, though. If you can mention one or two companies like that, it'd be great. Also, some of the biggest companies in the world are European, that's true. However, they are all but software companies (except for SAP, a b2b company). In Europe we are among the best in pharmaceuticals, cars, chemicals, etc. Sadly enough, software is nothing Europe is ahead with. The reason? In my opinion the fact that software is not tangible and innovation with software is a high risk business - often not scientific or rational. You need to try it out. Go and propose something like Snapchat to a European investor. The application for me is nonsense, I myself can't still see how it works, but it's valued billions. Did it have a business plan? Maybe. However I really doubt that it was 200 pages long. That's not something that the no-debt-at-all European mindset can deal with. I think it's partially cultural and partially historical. A sort of perfectionism that doesn't leave space to failure mixed with a world where corporations and lobbies are super protected and no matter what, they are always the winners and the way to do business. WhatsApp took 2-3 years before it became a standard messaging app. You can't always foresee it. It just happens. Others failed. Now everyone uses WhatsApp. Ps. I am European.
  - badpun 8y ago
    > Now everyone uses WhatsApp. Funnily, I only know one person who uses WhatsApp.
- snovv_crash 8y ago
  Yes, but they aren't as young as Google. They were probably started 100+ years ago, when Europe was still hungry.