4 ms·

Google makes no money off of Android but they've put massive resources into it. You honestly believe this? Then the must not be making tons of money off of sea

by yardie 16y ago

Google makes no money off of Android but they've put massive resources into it. You honestly believe this? Then the must not be making tons of money off of search either. Oh but they are, to the tune of millions. And Android? $1Billion in revenue. No one hates Google, but a kernel doesn't make an OS. Which is why Linux is known as GNU/Linux. By that logic OSX is also open source, you can even download and compile their kernel from here http://www.opensource.apple.com/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/ People are hating because they were promised open, but what they got comes with a lot of strings attached. What good is downloading the kernel and running make if you have nowhere to install it?

davidw 16y ago
> a kernel doesn't make an OS You realize that Android is a lot more than just the Linux kernel, right? And that almost all of it is available under an open source license?
- yardie 16y ago
  Except most of the drivers, the firmware, and some of the applications are not. I think most of developers would even be satisfied with a binary blob (ala nVidia or Broadcom) that would allow them to use the hardware, but not even that exists.
  - davidw 16y ago
    I know that some of the drivers are not open source. 'Most'? Let's talk concretely: does anyone know which ones? Applications: sure, you don't get some of the Google stuff, but so what. You can run the system without that. Android is not 100% free. But as far as I know, it's closer than anything else out there, and thus a good starting point for those wishing to work in that direction. And the system itself is pretty open - it's easy to see how things work and interact.
snotrockets 16y ago
You've got more than a Kernel, which was already open, as Android is based on the Linux kernel. It's interesting that it isn't a common unix or GNU. The whole software stack up from the kernel is different to anything you see elsewhere (I understand that MeeGo, another Linux-based phone OS takes a more standard approach, thus it be more comfortable to hack on, once it stops being vaporware). But AOSP does host code for the whole middleware and a couple of applications. What is missing in AOSP are some userspace drivers, the code that runs on the radio hardware ("baseband" in iPhone speak), and the Google services and brand. To continue your OS X analogy, it'd be like getting code for the whole OS, except for the stuff in /Applications. The problem with Android is that this software is useless if you don't have hardware to run it. And unlike a computer, where I can go to the store, buy a PC, download a Linux distro and run it on that hardware, most phones are tivoized and won't let you run software not signed by the manufacture. So you need to buy a special dev phone (N1 included), pull the binary drivers from the installed firmware, build AOSP from source, and flash it to the phone. And then you'd be missing the Google-candy. You can also get OpenMoko, which I think have all its drivers open. But I guess most people don't want to compile software for their own phone, just like only a few people build their OS from source. Most even never bother installing an OS, just using what came pre-installed. The hate against Android phones is from users wanting timely software upgrades, and no carrier-mandated crap. That, I'm happy to say, is mostly an American problem. Carriers sell phones the world round, but outside the US, caring customers (which are still a minority -- HN readers to the contrary, not everybody cares about what software her phone has), buy handsets from a 3rd party, and those have less limiting crap installed, as they need to satisfy the costumer, not the carrier.
- caf 16y ago
  Re "tivoized" hardware, I'm starting to seriously wonder if the drawbacks from the invention of asymmetric crypto have outweighed the benefits...

by yardie 16y ago

davidw 16y ago

> a kernel doesn't make an OS You realize that Android is a lot more than just the Linux kernel, right? And that almost all of it is available under an open source license?

yardie 16y ago
Except most of the drivers, the firmware, and some of the applications are not. I think most of developers would even be satisfied with a binary blob (ala nVidia or Broadcom) that would allow them to use the hardware, but not even that exists.
- davidw 16y ago
  I know that some of the drivers are not open source. 'Most'? Let's talk concretely: does anyone know which ones? Applications: sure, you don't get some of the Google stuff, but so what. You can run the system without that. Android is not 100% free. But as far as I know, it's closer than anything else out there, and thus a good starting point for those wishing to work in that direction. And the system itself is pretty open - it's easy to see how things work and interact.

snotrockets 16y ago

You've got more than a Kernel, which was already open, as Android is based on the Linux kernel. It's interesting that it isn't a common unix or GNU. The whole software stack up from the kernel is different to anything you see elsewhere (I understand that MeeGo, another Linux-based phone OS takes a more standard approach, thus it be more comfortable to hack on, once it stops being vaporware). But AOSP does host code for the whole middleware and a couple of applications. What is missing in AOSP are some userspace drivers, the code that runs on the radio hardware ("baseband" in iPhone speak), and the Google services and brand. To continue your OS X analogy, it'd be like getting code for the whole OS, except for the stuff in /Applications. The problem with Android is that this software is useless if you don't have hardware to run it. And unlike a computer, where I can go to the store, buy a PC, download a Linux distro and run it on that hardware, most phones are tivoized and won't let you run software not signed by the manufacture. So you need to buy a special dev phone (N1 included), pull the binary drivers from the installed firmware, build AOSP from source, and flash it to the phone. And then you'd be missing the Google-candy. You can also get OpenMoko, which I think have all its drivers open. But I guess most people don't want to compile software for their own phone, just like only a few people build their OS from source. Most even never bother installing an OS, just using what came pre-installed. The hate against Android phones is from users wanting timely software upgrades, and no carrier-mandated crap. That, I'm happy to say, is mostly an American problem. Carriers sell phones the world round, but outside the US, caring customers (which are still a minority -- HN readers to the contrary, not everybody cares about what software her phone has), buy handsets from a 3rd party, and those have less limiting crap installed, as they need to satisfy the costumer, not the carrier.

caf 16y ago
Re "tivoized" hardware, I'm starting to seriously wonder if the drawbacks from the invention of asymmetric crypto have outweighed the benefits...