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I think this is the best outcome we can have (although there might be other lawsuits from the short sellers). Elon will learn a hard lesson, there will be a co

I think this is the best outcome we can have (although there might be other lawsuits from the short sellers). Elon will learn a hard lesson, there will be a committee and procedures to control his communication channels. He will still be CEO and the spirit of Tesla will be unharmed in the long run. As much as I see myself as an objective person, Elon is genuine in his passion and his vision. Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be. Edit: The news cycle and PR things have a very short term memory. Just a year ago, people were praising him for his style and overall he was considered an extraordinary leader, CEO and a visionary.

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minimaxir 8y ago
> Elon will learn a hard lesson, there will be a committee and procedures to control his communication channels. I am very skeptical of this given Musk's recent Twitter behavior (even after the initial Tweet which started the incident).
- juki 8y ago
  It's part of the settlement: > Tesla will establish a new committee of independent directors and put in place additional controls and procedures to oversee Musk’s communications;
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    I don't really know what it says about the CEO of a company if they basically have to put him under supervision. He's not a kindergartner. I feel this reliance on Musk as a face of the company is increasingly the biggest selling point of the company, which will be unhealthy in the long run.
    - InTheArena 8y ago
      This is just called good governance. CEO and president should be separate roles. We’ve consistently seen bad governance when they are merged
      - stevew20 8y ago
        Like in the US government...
        anticensor 8y ago
        Donald Trump would bring the same results even if he had a prime minister.
    - michaelt 8y ago
      I don't really know what it says about the CEO of a company if they basically have to put him under supervision. He's not a kindergartner. The vast majority of Fortune 500 companies don't have celeb CEOs who make official announcements through their personal twitter accounts. Warren Buffett doesn't compose his letters to shareholders in 30 seconds from his cell phone while he's on the toilet. He probably runs them past a handful of people and waits a few days to look at them with a fresh pair of eyes before he sends them out, like a college student would with their thesis. This is normal CEO behaviour.
      - Barrin92 8y ago
        It's normal ceo behaviour to run your statements by PR people, but it isn't normal to have that forced onto you by your board after you were just fined a 20 million dollar fine by the SEC because you went on a twitter bender
meritt 8y ago
> Derailing him to jail time or prison This was never remotely a concern. The most severe punishment sought was barring him from being a director or CEO of a public company. They settled on a paltry fine and Musk can't be chair. He's still CEO, he's still on the board, and the fine is less than insignificant. Honestly losing access to his Twitter account is probably the most severe.
- threeseed 8y ago
  That’s not how this works. DOJ is responsible for charging Musk with a crime not the SEC. And it could still happen.
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thinkcontext 8y ago
If I was an institutional investor I'd be pissed he's not out as CEO. Musk is talented at start-ups but has been a disaster at running scaled up companies. His risk taking on Model 3 assembly line automation nearly sunk Tesla and could still do do. BFR could sink SpaceX, it's a rocket for Mars colonization without a customer. I'm a huge fan of his accomplishments but the risk taking coupled with the erratic behavior is too much. His boards should kick him out.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  I agree that he has gone a bit lunatic recently, but everyone was praising him just a year ago. I feel like a lot of recent hate has to do with his erratic behavior in recent year. But, lets just look back at 2017 - everyone was praising him for his leadership. A few PR incidents and now all of a sudden he is incapable as a CEO?
  - thinkcontext 8y ago
    It is not true that everyone was praising him a year ago. There were very serious execution concerns being raised then.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Any institutional investor owning SpaceX shares knew that BFR was the plan when they bought the shares.
- InclinedPlane 8y ago
  Well, not that is more in the hands of the rest of the shareholders. He's no longer on the board and there will be new independent board members so it will be all the easier to remove him as CEO if that is the thing that the shareholders want.
  - thinkcontext 8y ago
    Good point, the independent investors could make it more likely he be removed if he continues to be erratic. And Blackrock did propose having him step down as chairman.
archagon 8y ago
> Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be. I hate this perspective. As a member of humanity, I want everyone to face equal justice, no matter how pivotal to a particular project or movement they may be. There will always be more visionaries. Anything else will eventually and inevitably lead to violence.
- InTheArena 8y ago
  He did just pay for his mistakes, so everyone (except Elon) is a winner here. Elon needs someone to act as a brake from time to time. Like shotwell at SpaceX..
  - archagon 8y ago
    I was responding more to the sentiment than this to particular case. Glad Musk was held accountable.
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  Would you have sacrificed the Apollo program for that sentiment? Genuine question. I'm conflicted myself.
  - Invictus0 8y ago
    Absolutely. Even if it Apollo failed and it took 50 more years for humanity to reach the moon, these are small numbers on the scale of human history. Jailing Musk wouldn't mean humanity is forever unable to have electric cars or go to Mars. As another HN user quoted recently, the graveyards are filled with indispensable men.
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago
      It's particularly relevant to Apollo considering Werner von Braun. In hindsight, it looks less urgent because we didn't do a lot with the intervening years.. but it could have been different. Not sure why people downvoted my question, it's an interesting line of inquiry. Maybe they don't know their history.
anigbrowl 8y ago
Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be. I have nothing against Musk but this is an awful argument. You are simply not in a position to opine on what is a net gain or loss for humanity, so you're arguing that we should make decisions based on the best imaginable future outcome because he already has some notable achievements. Without commenting on the guy at all, please just reflect that almost any wealthy business person has a PR team that not only highlights the person's positive qualities, but works hard to disseminate those opinions in public to maximize the value of the person's reputation.
blowski 8y ago
OT but why do people refer to him as Elon? I’m assuming you aren’t personal friends with him. So whenever I see someone refer to him as Elon, in faux “first-name terms informality”, it immediately makes them look like they’re part of the fan club and reduces their credibility.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  In my case, when I talk about "Barack Obama", I have always said "Obama". Whereas, if I am talking to anyone about "Elon Musk", I always say "Elon". Don't read too much into it. Edit: Not brevity, wrong word.
  - blowski 8y ago
    For brevity? Musk is shorter than Elon.
- asaph 8y ago
  If you called him simply Musk, I might think you were referring to Kimbal. Elon disambiguates.
  - blowski 8y ago
    Elon is more common than Musk, so if anything, it’s more vague who you’re referring to. Though I don’t think either would be unclear on a post about Elon Musk.
    - asaph 8y ago
      I was being facetious. No one thinks we're taking about Kimbal.
- dx87 8y ago
  Because he's a person just like everyone else, isn't in a position of authority over anyone except his employees, and hasn't done anything to warrant using formal titles when referring to him in casual conversation. What do you think he's done that merits everyone treating him with additional respect?
dirkgently 8y ago
> Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity If jailing someone who has committed fraud is a loss to humanity, then I am glad not to be part of it. The amount of circle-jerking and asshole-worship has gone through the roof here. I mean, yes, after Steve Jobs, some prople need someone else to satisfy their dick-sucking urges, but come on! There has to be a limit to it.
rayiner 8y ago
SEC has no authority to bring criminal charges, so unless the US Attorneys Office got involved thay was not in the cards. Too severe for what he did, in my opinion.
WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
> Just a year ago, people were praising him for his style and overall he was considered an extraordinary leader, CEO and a visionary. His ego has gotten out of control. He started to believe his own press. It seems to be human nature. Oh ya, we have a word for it, hubris. With all his reading you would think he would have learned from other's mistakes.
maxxxxx 8y ago
"Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be." The number one criterion for a functioning democracy is a reliable and consistent application of the law to everybody without exception. Declaring that somebody should be above the law is a very dangerous path.

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minimaxir 8y ago

> Elon will learn a hard lesson, there will be a committee and procedures to control his communication channels. I am very skeptical of this given Musk's recent Twitter behavior (even after the initial Tweet which started the incident).

juki 8y ago
It's part of the settlement: > Tesla will establish a new committee of independent directors and put in place additional controls and procedures to oversee Musk’s communications;
- Barrin92 8y ago
  I don't really know what it says about the CEO of a company if they basically have to put him under supervision. He's not a kindergartner. I feel this reliance on Musk as a face of the company is increasingly the biggest selling point of the company, which will be unhealthy in the long run.
  - InTheArena 8y ago
    This is just called good governance. CEO and president should be separate roles. We’ve consistently seen bad governance when they are merged
    - stevew20 8y ago
      Like in the US government...
      - anticensor 8y ago
        Donald Trump would bring the same results even if he had a prime minister.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    I don't really know what it says about the CEO of a company if they basically have to put him under supervision. He's not a kindergartner. The vast majority of Fortune 500 companies don't have celeb CEOs who make official announcements through their personal twitter accounts. Warren Buffett doesn't compose his letters to shareholders in 30 seconds from his cell phone while he's on the toilet. He probably runs them past a handful of people and waits a few days to look at them with a fresh pair of eyes before he sends them out, like a college student would with their thesis. This is normal CEO behaviour.
    - Barrin92 8y ago
      It's normal ceo behaviour to run your statements by PR people, but it isn't normal to have that forced onto you by your board after you were just fined a 20 million dollar fine by the SEC because you went on a twitter bender

meritt 8y ago

> Derailing him to jail time or prison This was never remotely a concern. The most severe punishment sought was barring him from being a director or CEO of a public company. They settled on a paltry fine and Musk can't be chair. He's still CEO, he's still on the board, and the fine is less than insignificant. Honestly losing access to his Twitter account is probably the most severe.

threeseed 8y ago
That’s not how this works. DOJ is responsible for charging Musk with a crime not the SEC. And it could still happen.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 8y ago

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thinkcontext 8y ago

If I was an institutional investor I'd be pissed he's not out as CEO. Musk is talented at start-ups but has been a disaster at running scaled up companies. His risk taking on Model 3 assembly line automation nearly sunk Tesla and could still do do. BFR could sink SpaceX, it's a rocket for Mars colonization without a customer. I'm a huge fan of his accomplishments but the risk taking coupled with the erratic behavior is too much. His boards should kick him out.

fermienrico 8y ago
I agree that he has gone a bit lunatic recently, but everyone was praising him just a year ago. I feel like a lot of recent hate has to do with his erratic behavior in recent year. But, lets just look back at 2017 - everyone was praising him for his leadership. A few PR incidents and now all of a sudden he is incapable as a CEO?
- thinkcontext 8y ago
  It is not true that everyone was praising him a year ago. There were very serious execution concerns being raised then.
greglindahl 8y ago
Any institutional investor owning SpaceX shares knew that BFR was the plan when they bought the shares.
InclinedPlane 8y ago
Well, not that is more in the hands of the rest of the shareholders. He's no longer on the board and there will be new independent board members so it will be all the easier to remove him as CEO if that is the thing that the shareholders want.
- thinkcontext 8y ago
  Good point, the independent investors could make it more likely he be removed if he continues to be erratic. And Blackrock did propose having him step down as chairman.

archagon 8y ago

> Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be. I hate this perspective. As a member of humanity, I want everyone to face equal justice, no matter how pivotal to a particular project or movement they may be. There will always be more visionaries. Anything else will eventually and inevitably lead to violence.

InTheArena 8y ago
He did just pay for his mistakes, so everyone (except Elon) is a winner here. Elon needs someone to act as a brake from time to time. Like shotwell at SpaceX..
- archagon 8y ago
  I was responding more to the sentiment than this to particular case. Glad Musk was held accountable.
yourbandsucks 8y ago
Would you have sacrificed the Apollo program for that sentiment? Genuine question. I'm conflicted myself.
- Invictus0 8y ago
  Absolutely. Even if it Apollo failed and it took 50 more years for humanity to reach the moon, these are small numbers on the scale of human history. Jailing Musk wouldn't mean humanity is forever unable to have electric cars or go to Mars. As another HN user quoted recently, the graveyards are filled with indispensable men.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    It's particularly relevant to Apollo considering Werner von Braun. In hindsight, it looks less urgent because we didn't do a lot with the intervening years.. but it could have been different. Not sure why people downvoted my question, it's an interesting line of inquiry. Maybe they don't know their history.

anigbrowl 8y ago

Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be. I have nothing against Musk but this is an awful argument. You are simply not in a position to opine on what is a net gain or loss for humanity, so you're arguing that we should make decisions based on the best imaginable future outcome because he already has some notable achievements. Without commenting on the guy at all, please just reflect that almost any wealthy business person has a PR team that not only highlights the person's positive qualities, but works hard to disseminate those opinions in public to maximize the value of the person's reputation.

blowski 8y ago

OT but why do people refer to him as Elon? I’m assuming you aren’t personal friends with him. So whenever I see someone refer to him as Elon, in faux “first-name terms informality”, it immediately makes them look like they’re part of the fan club and reduces their credibility.

fermienrico 8y ago
In my case, when I talk about "Barack Obama", I have always said "Obama". Whereas, if I am talking to anyone about "Elon Musk", I always say "Elon". Don't read too much into it. Edit: Not brevity, wrong word.
- blowski 8y ago
  For brevity? Musk is shorter than Elon.
asaph 8y ago
If you called him simply Musk, I might think you were referring to Kimbal. Elon disambiguates.
- blowski 8y ago
  Elon is more common than Musk, so if anything, it’s more vague who you’re referring to. Though I don’t think either would be unclear on a post about Elon Musk.
  - asaph 8y ago
    I was being facetious. No one thinks we're taking about Kimbal.
dx87 8y ago
Because he's a person just like everyone else, isn't in a position of authority over anyone except his employees, and hasn't done anything to warrant using formal titles when referring to him in casual conversation. What do you think he's done that merits everyone treating him with additional respect?

dirkgently 8y ago

> Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity If jailing someone who has committed fraud is a loss to humanity, then I am glad not to be part of it. The amount of circle-jerking and asshole-worship has gone through the roof here. I mean, yes, after Steve Jobs, some prople need someone else to satisfy their dick-sucking urges, but come on! There has to be a limit to it.

rayiner 8y ago

SEC has no authority to bring criminal charges, so unless the US Attorneys Office got involved thay was not in the cards. Too severe for what he did, in my opinion.

WheelsAtLarge 8y ago

> Just a year ago, people were praising him for his style and overall he was considered an extraordinary leader, CEO and a visionary. His ego has gotten out of control. He started to believe his own press. It seems to be human nature. Oh ya, we have a word for it, hubris. With all his reading you would think he would have learned from other's mistakes.

maxxxxx 8y ago

"Derailing him to jail time or prison would be a net loss for humanity, however objectively and legally inconsistent it may be." The number one criterion for a functioning democracy is a reliable and consistent application of the law to everybody without exception. Declaring that somebody should be above the law is a very dangerous path.