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most of the German army (80%) was horse drawn and they also used bicycles extensively. They developed some impressive technology which they showcased for the bl

most of the German army (80%) was horse drawn and they also used bicycles extensively. They developed some impressive technology which they showcased for the blitzkreig propaganda but in reality it was clueless farmworkers given a belt with 'in God we trust' and uniform and ordered to march into Poland etc. Most of the perceptions of WWII, including the holocaust, have been shaped by post war US media. As an example the term 'holocaust' was widely publicized by ABC TV for their miniseries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(miniseries) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(miniseries) Prior to that the term 'holocaust' was used to describe the Armenian genocide and you can still find Armenians who are deeply offended by this. This is not a defense of the Nazi party - I grew up in Coventry UK, one of the most heavily bombed cities in England in WWII (my mother was there under the kitchen table) - this is an attempt to address the reality that in 2018 we are largely influenced by the media in our perceptions of a war that was more than a generation ago, and that politicians were as labile and devious then as they are now, on both sides.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
You're right that somehow pre-war Wehrmacht has got a reputation as being something they were very much not - efficient and high tech. It was only 80% of German artillery that was horse drawn or more accurately only partially motorised at the outbreak of war. German infantry was entirely on foot (and frequently commandeered or stole bicycles). More importantly, Wehrmacht supply and logistics were woefully lacking mechanisation. The highly mechanised blitzkrieg was certainly partially PR, but was also a reaction the fact that the army was so poorly equipped in 39. They focused mechanisation on achieving full mechanisation rather than spreading it "fairly" across regiments. The had a small number of completely mechanised regiments, with fully modern equipment, and "the rest". Still, you can't escape the fact blitzkrieg was also effective. It was effective as tactics had not evolved far from WW1 trench warfare. It was but a very small part of the military whole. There were lots of shortcomings in the German war machine - for example, they never developed a successful 4 engine bomber severely limiting the bomb loads they could send, and range. As to holocaust, my UK history lessons, before this mini series was made, and books referred to "the holocaust" as the main term, occasionally referring to the Nazi term "the final solution".
- olivermarks 8y ago
  https://newrepublic.com/article/121807/when-holocaust-became-holocaust https://newrepublic.com/article/121807/when-holocaust-became...
watwut 8y ago
I have no idea what of what you wrote could come across as defending Nazi. None of it sounds like defense at all (neither soldier farmers nor origin of word nor us media). I am not from US and had little access to postwar US media. Instead I read multiple books written by Historians about WWII, Germany and Hitler. I am not sure what does origin of the term Holocaust have to use with the thread. We can use Shoah and will not change a thing. The wehrmacht was national army with long tradition. They took over most of Europe including significant part of Russian territory. Not clueless farmers and clueless farmers were not in leadership. Moreover, Germany was preparing for war for years and that included school system trying to help raise soldier material. As for bicycles, bicycles don't require gas which is why popularity among both army and civilians. Add to it restrictions imposed on German army by WWI victors (which Germans broke, but had to be careful not to do it too openly) and it all becomes logical. Polish army was still using primary horses and did not anticipated modern war. Germans actually came with better technology. Lastly, the idea that bad things started with war and later Holocaust is not correct. The state performed repressions of political opposition and violent social control started at earliest, the moment nazi took power. Plans were ready in advance. The nazi themselves were like that even before they took state power into control and violence etc played role already during democratic state, including during elections.
- olivermarks 8y ago
  I was attempting to make the point that our perception of past realities is mostly shaped by the media. Estimates vary but from 75 to 120 million people perished in WWII with many more gravely injured physically and mentally. Now that generation has died and TV and film have taken over 'dramatizing' events... https://vimeo.com/128373915 https://vimeo.com/128373915

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

You're right that somehow pre-war Wehrmacht has got a reputation as being something they were very much not - efficient and high tech. It was only 80% of German artillery that was horse drawn or more accurately only partially motorised at the outbreak of war. German infantry was entirely on foot (and frequently commandeered or stole bicycles). More importantly, Wehrmacht supply and logistics were woefully lacking mechanisation. The highly mechanised blitzkrieg was certainly partially PR, but was also a reaction the fact that the army was so poorly equipped in 39. They focused mechanisation on achieving full mechanisation rather than spreading it "fairly" across regiments. The had a small number of completely mechanised regiments, with fully modern equipment, and "the rest". Still, you can't escape the fact blitzkrieg was also effective. It was effective as tactics had not evolved far from WW1 trench warfare. It was but a very small part of the military whole. There were lots of shortcomings in the German war machine - for example, they never developed a successful 4 engine bomber severely limiting the bomb loads they could send, and range. As to holocaust, my UK history lessons, before this mini series was made, and books referred to "the holocaust" as the main term, occasionally referring to the Nazi term "the final solution".

olivermarks 8y ago
https://newrepublic.com/article/121807/when-holocaust-became-holocaust https://newrepublic.com/article/121807/when-holocaust-became...

watwut 8y ago

I have no idea what of what you wrote could come across as defending Nazi. None of it sounds like defense at all (neither soldier farmers nor origin of word nor us media). I am not from US and had little access to postwar US media. Instead I read multiple books written by Historians about WWII, Germany and Hitler. I am not sure what does origin of the term Holocaust have to use with the thread. We can use Shoah and will not change a thing. The wehrmacht was national army with long tradition. They took over most of Europe including significant part of Russian territory. Not clueless farmers and clueless farmers were not in leadership. Moreover, Germany was preparing for war for years and that included school system trying to help raise soldier material. As for bicycles, bicycles don't require gas which is why popularity among both army and civilians. Add to it restrictions imposed on German army by WWI victors (which Germans broke, but had to be careful not to do it too openly) and it all becomes logical. Polish army was still using primary horses and did not anticipated modern war. Germans actually came with better technology. Lastly, the idea that bad things started with war and later Holocaust is not correct. The state performed repressions of political opposition and violent social control started at earliest, the moment nazi took power. Plans were ready in advance. The nazi themselves were like that even before they took state power into control and violence etc played role already during democratic state, including during elections.

olivermarks 8y ago
I was attempting to make the point that our perception of past realities is mostly shaped by the media. Estimates vary but from 75 to 120 million people perished in WWII with many more gravely injured physically and mentally. Now that generation has died and TV and film have taken over 'dramatizing' events... https://vimeo.com/128373915 https://vimeo.com/128373915