5 ms·

Big and bad

30 points by kradic 18y ago

slapshot 18y ago
Seems like this would be more appropriate a few years ago. Sales of the Trailblazer are down 73% (last year this month to current year) and sales of other SUV lines have dropped similarly. Source: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C05%5C03%5Cstory_3-5-2008_pg5_41 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C05%5C03... The lesson for startups out of this are (1) don't chase fads, and (2) consumers really do care about total cost of ownership.
- omouse 18y ago
  "consumers really do care about total cost of ownership" ...eventually ;-)
- tx 18y ago
  I don't understand that industry although I've been a C&D subscriber forever. I picked up this month issue, and again: every single new car they previewed gained inches and pounds. Every freaking time, every month, every new car. How many more inches of wheelbase and cubic inches of trunk space do we need? Sure, SUV sales are down, but overall the total mass that today's consumers demand to be riding on, keeps increasing. Look at a freaking "mid-size" Camry or Accord parked next to 10 year old Explorer or 4Runner - they're nearly equal in size. 4-cylinder engines have all surpassed 2L displacement mark, and anything less than 220hp is considered "inadequate". The auto industry needs their own Steve Jobs, someone who's capable of telling these fat idiots what to like, as opposed to blindly following their reptilian instincts.
  - menloparkbum 18y ago
    According to the studies that keep track of such details, the size of car owners also keeps increasing. Perhaps the auto manufacturers are simply trying to ensure their vehicles can comfortably accommodate such trends.
- neilc 18y ago
  Seems like this would be more appropriate a few years ago It was written in 2004, so that would make sense.
ChaitanyaSai 18y ago
Clotaire Rapaille's (he is mentioned in the article) book "The Culture Code" is a pretty insightful read. It is hard to come up with a gist of what is in there, but if I were to attempt summarizing it, I would say that the thesis is that cultural has a surprisingly sizable impact on most decisions, and consumers are never accurate when supposedly describing their feelings.
mattmaroon 18y ago
He leaves out that 3 of the top 5 cars (all of which are absent from his chart) in terms of fewest deaths per million are SUVs. The one I drive (Lexus RX) has only about half of the fatalities that the Avalon does. Also in terms of handling, it's grossly unfair to compare a Traiblazer (built for shlepping kids and groceries around) to a Boxster. I'd be interested in knowing how a Cayenne ran the course. Or how much better than a Traiblazer a similarly priced GM sedan would.
- whatusername 18y ago
  Cayenne = FAIL http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44733 http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?Article... Well, not quite - but the cheap one does seem to diminish the Porche brand a bit..
- aantix 18y ago
  I just can't resist... I love how you happen to mention that you drive a Lexus. "According to Bradsher, internal industry market research concluded that S.U.V.s tend to be bought by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills."
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I'll grant you vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, but not the rest.
mattmaroon 18y ago
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/03/15/sr4003.pdf http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/03/15/sr4003.pdf Looks like SUVs are actually a little safer than typical 4 dr or 2 dr sedans.
- neilc 18y ago
  Interesting. The evidence doesn't seem to support his claim that small and agile is better than big and bulky: Important characteristics of vehicles that influence their driver death rates are type, body style, size, and weight. Within virtually every group of vehicles, the smaller and lighter models have the higher rates... Among cars, for example, the smallest twodoor models had the highest death rate at 190 per million vehicle years. This rate is more than twice as high as the average for all vehicles included in the study... The vehicle group with the lowest driver death rate was large luxury cars with 37 deaths per million vehicle years. The next lowest rate was in large minivans and station wagons with 42 deaths per million.
  - menloparkbum 18y ago
    Unfortunately I think the soccer moms are not so far off the mark. Small contemporary 2 door economy vehicles get smushed and crumpled immediately upon impact with a larger, sturdier vehicle. I used to drive a grotesque, gigantic luxury vehicle from the 1980s and was rear ended twice. Both times the other cars (GEO metro, some sort of Hyundai) were totaled (from a fender bender!) and I merely ended up with additional dents on my bumper.
    - wensing 18y ago
      The argument is that you are less likely to crash when piloting a smaller vehicle, not that a smaller vehicle fares better in a crash of similar nature.
      - neilc 18y ago
        Sure, but the evidence I cited above does not seem to support that.
trekker7 18y ago
Interesting how people want to feel safe, instead of actually being safe. If people act irrationally, doesn't economics theory break down? Also I think the article ignores the possibility that drivers of quick and nimble cars could be (on average) more skilled than drivers of large SUVs. This could have caused the difference in safety statistics.
mynameishere 18y ago
In the GE transportation systems twin diesel-electric locomotive vs. Boxster crash tests, the locomotive came out ahead a remarkable 100 percent of the time. Of course, it's MPG is somewhat less than the boxster, but the soccer moms involved said that nothing was too good for their respective munchkins.
noonespecial 18y ago
Jettas are safe because they make their drivers feel unsafe. S.U.V.s are unsafe because they make their drivers feel safe. That feeling of safety isn't the solution; it's the problem. So much wisdom in so few words.
wensing 18y ago
I'm reminded of the fact that the Ferrari Enzo is one of the fastest but also safest cars in existence: "The Enzo is one of the safest cars to be in a crash because it’s designed to come apart at high speeds, similar to a Formula 1 car." http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/ferrari/another-enzo-bites-the-dust/ http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/ferrari/another-enzo-bite...

30 points by kradic 18y ago

Seems like this would be more appropriate a few years ago. Sales of the Trailblazer are down 73% (last year this month to current year) and sales of other SUV lines have dropped similarly. Source: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C05%5C03%5Cstory_3-5-2008_pg5_41 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C05%5C03... The lesson for startups out of this are (1) don't chase fads, and (2) consumers really do care about total cost of ownership.

omouse 18y ago
"consumers really do care about total cost of ownership" ...eventually ;-)
tx 18y ago
I don't understand that industry although I've been a C&D subscriber forever. I picked up this month issue, and again: every single new car they previewed gained inches and pounds. Every freaking time, every month, every new car. How many more inches of wheelbase and cubic inches of trunk space do we need? Sure, SUV sales are down, but overall the total mass that today's consumers demand to be riding on, keeps increasing. Look at a freaking "mid-size" Camry or Accord parked next to 10 year old Explorer or 4Runner - they're nearly equal in size. 4-cylinder engines have all surpassed 2L displacement mark, and anything less than 220hp is considered "inadequate". The auto industry needs their own Steve Jobs, someone who's capable of telling these fat idiots what to like, as opposed to blindly following their reptilian instincts.
- menloparkbum 18y ago
  According to the studies that keep track of such details, the size of car owners also keeps increasing. Perhaps the auto manufacturers are simply trying to ensure their vehicles can comfortably accommodate such trends.
neilc 18y ago
Seems like this would be more appropriate a few years ago It was written in 2004, so that would make sense.

ChaitanyaSai 18y ago

Clotaire Rapaille's (he is mentioned in the article) book "The Culture Code" is a pretty insightful read. It is hard to come up with a gist of what is in there, but if I were to attempt summarizing it, I would say that the thesis is that cultural has a surprisingly sizable impact on most decisions, and consumers are never accurate when supposedly describing their feelings.

mattmaroon 18y ago

He leaves out that 3 of the top 5 cars (all of which are absent from his chart) in terms of fewest deaths per million are SUVs. The one I drive (Lexus RX) has only about half of the fatalities that the Avalon does. Also in terms of handling, it's grossly unfair to compare a Traiblazer (built for shlepping kids and groceries around) to a Boxster. I'd be interested in knowing how a Cayenne ran the course. Or how much better than a Traiblazer a similarly priced GM sedan would.

whatusername 18y ago
Cayenne = FAIL http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44733 http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?Article... Well, not quite - but the cheap one does seem to diminish the Porche brand a bit..
aantix 18y ago
I just can't resist... I love how you happen to mention that you drive a Lexus. "According to Bradsher, internal industry market research concluded that S.U.V.s tend to be bought by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills."
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  I'll grant you vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, but not the rest.

mattmaroon 18y ago

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/03/15/sr4003.pdf http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/03/15/sr4003.pdf Looks like SUVs are actually a little safer than typical 4 dr or 2 dr sedans.

neilc 18y ago
Interesting. The evidence doesn't seem to support his claim that small and agile is better than big and bulky: Important characteristics of vehicles that influence their driver death rates are type, body style, size, and weight. Within virtually every group of vehicles, the smaller and lighter models have the higher rates... Among cars, for example, the smallest twodoor models had the highest death rate at 190 per million vehicle years. This rate is more than twice as high as the average for all vehicles included in the study... The vehicle group with the lowest driver death rate was large luxury cars with 37 deaths per million vehicle years. The next lowest rate was in large minivans and station wagons with 42 deaths per million.
- menloparkbum 18y ago
  Unfortunately I think the soccer moms are not so far off the mark. Small contemporary 2 door economy vehicles get smushed and crumpled immediately upon impact with a larger, sturdier vehicle. I used to drive a grotesque, gigantic luxury vehicle from the 1980s and was rear ended twice. Both times the other cars (GEO metro, some sort of Hyundai) were totaled (from a fender bender!) and I merely ended up with additional dents on my bumper.
  - wensing 18y ago
    The argument is that you are less likely to crash when piloting a smaller vehicle, not that a smaller vehicle fares better in a crash of similar nature.
    - neilc 18y ago
      Sure, but the evidence I cited above does not seem to support that.

trekker7 18y ago

Interesting how people want to feel safe, instead of actually being safe. If people act irrationally, doesn't economics theory break down? Also I think the article ignores the possibility that drivers of quick and nimble cars could be (on average) more skilled than drivers of large SUVs. This could have caused the difference in safety statistics.

mynameishere 18y ago

In the GE transportation systems twin diesel-electric locomotive vs. Boxster crash tests, the locomotive came out ahead a remarkable 100 percent of the time. Of course, it's MPG is somewhat less than the boxster, but the soccer moms involved said that nothing was too good for their respective munchkins.

noonespecial 18y ago

Jettas are safe because they make their drivers feel unsafe. S.U.V.s are unsafe because they make their drivers feel safe. That feeling of safety isn't the solution; it's the problem. So much wisdom in so few words.

wensing 18y ago

I'm reminded of the fact that the Ferrari Enzo is one of the fastest but also safest cars in existence: "The Enzo is one of the safest cars to be in a crash because it’s designed to come apart at high speeds, similar to a Formula 1 car." http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/ferrari/another-enzo-bites-the-dust/ http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/ferrari/another-enzo-bite...