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College professors and the department are the gatekeepers, they pick the textbooks, they set the curriculum. Administrators might push something, but it is exce

College professors and the department are the gatekeepers, they pick the textbooks, they set the curriculum. Administrators might push something, but it is exceptionally rare for anyone outside of a department to dictate exactly what materials and resources they're required to use. As an aside is your argument: - Underpay - Being a college professor is hard - Administration made me do it Because that really was the smorgasbord of excuses. I have very little sympathy for #1 (see college tuition increases; unionize if you want a larger piece of the pie), #2 since the whole rest of the world manages without selling out, and #3 is pretty much everyone's job (i.e. standing up to bad administration decisions). We've had the same lame excuses for the last twenty years while the problems continue to get worse. Until incentives align, or the public correctly holds professors/departments accountable, this will continue and continue to get worse. None of the excuses here change that.

skh 8y ago
I am in a union. We do get pressure from administration. They can’t force me to use a given website but pressure does exist. You’ve made a lot of assumptions about me and what happens in departments. I’ve been in the job for 18 years and my anecdotal experience differs from your perception. I’m guessing you aren’t employed as a faculty member at a college. I don’t know if this is the case but your assertions feel like someone who is speaking about things they peripherally understand. Your first paragraph is just plain wrong. There have been a number of states that have legally mandated that there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra. This is an example of effectively being told what to do whilst maintaining the veneer of faculty control. I do not think you really understand the situation. You made a comment about the rest of the world not selling out. You really think this? Google engineers haven’t sold out so to speak? Soldiers transporting people to secret prisons to be tortured haven’t sold out? When you use such hyperbole it’s hard not to read into your words anger and bitterness. It diminishes the quality of your comment. I reiterate, the forces at play are not as simplistic as you appear to think. And the solution definitely isn’t as simplistic as the one you gave.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > There have been a number of states that have legally mandated that there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra. This seems... unlikely. By "college algebra", do you mean "a group is a structure with the following properties", or "x is called a variable"?
  - skh 8y ago
    In the United States college algebra is a course that covers things like the quadratic formula, solving basic exponential equations and things like that.
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      That's not true "in the United States". It's a euphemistic choice by colleges that are ashamed to say "remedial algebra". The same course is called "algebra" when you take it in middle school, "algebra" when you take it in high school, and "college algebra" (apparently) when you take it as a college graduation requirement. On the other hand, colleges do offer a different course called "algebra", which introduces group theory and is nothing like grade school algebra. >> there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra The way you've defined "college algebra", it is a precollege level math course.
      - skh 8y ago
        Well, I teach college algebra a lot and I teach it in the United States. I’m telling you what that term means in the United States. I don’t know what it means outside of the United States. Beginning Algebra and Intermmediate Algebra are the names for courses that cover basic algebraic topics at the pre college level. Do you think I’m lying or otherwise wrong? Go to the American version of Amazon.com and search for college algebra textbooks. Look at the table of contents and you’ll see that my description is accurate. In the United States courses that teach basic ring theory and group theory are usually called Modern Algebra or Abstract Algebra. You appear to have an axe to grind. Your apparent anger is misplaced. We are just discussing the names of things and not on the merit of those things.

skh 8y ago

I am in a union. We do get pressure from administration. They can’t force me to use a given website but pressure does exist. You’ve made a lot of assumptions about me and what happens in departments. I’ve been in the job for 18 years and my anecdotal experience differs from your perception. I’m guessing you aren’t employed as a faculty member at a college. I don’t know if this is the case but your assertions feel like someone who is speaking about things they peripherally understand. Your first paragraph is just plain wrong. There have been a number of states that have legally mandated that there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra. This is an example of effectively being told what to do whilst maintaining the veneer of faculty control. I do not think you really understand the situation. You made a comment about the rest of the world not selling out. You really think this? Google engineers haven’t sold out so to speak? Soldiers transporting people to secret prisons to be tortured haven’t sold out? When you use such hyperbole it’s hard not to read into your words anger and bitterness. It diminishes the quality of your comment. I reiterate, the forces at play are not as simplistic as you appear to think. And the solution definitely isn’t as simplistic as the one you gave.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> There have been a number of states that have legally mandated that there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra. This seems... unlikely. By "college algebra", do you mean "a group is a structure with the following properties", or "x is called a variable"?
- skh 8y ago
  In the United States college algebra is a course that covers things like the quadratic formula, solving basic exponential equations and things like that.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    That's not true "in the United States". It's a euphemistic choice by colleges that are ashamed to say "remedial algebra". The same course is called "algebra" when you take it in middle school, "algebra" when you take it in high school, and "college algebra" (apparently) when you take it as a college graduation requirement. On the other hand, colleges do offer a different course called "algebra", which introduces group theory and is nothing like grade school algebra. >> there can be no more than one precollege level math course before being allowed to take college algebra The way you've defined "college algebra", it is a precollege level math course.
    - skh 8y ago
      Well, I teach college algebra a lot and I teach it in the United States. I’m telling you what that term means in the United States. I don’t know what it means outside of the United States. Beginning Algebra and Intermmediate Algebra are the names for courses that cover basic algebraic topics at the pre college level. Do you think I’m lying or otherwise wrong? Go to the American version of Amazon.com and search for college algebra textbooks. Look at the table of contents and you’ll see that my description is accurate. In the United States courses that teach basic ring theory and group theory are usually called Modern Algebra or Abstract Algebra. You appear to have an axe to grind. Your apparent anger is misplaced. We are just discussing the names of things and not on the merit of those things.