4 ms·

Had plain old cannabis been legalized 20 years ago, I doubt that these synthetic cannabinoids would have become notable articles of commerce. Maybe a handful of

Had plain old cannabis been legalized 20 years ago, I doubt that these synthetic cannabinoids would have become notable articles of commerce. Maybe a handful of adventurous psychonauts would use contract research laboratories to make small quantities and post trip reports. But cannabis wasn't legalized, so hundreds of chemicals with sort-of-similar effects, selected more for "not technically banned yet" than "believed to be safe for human consumption," are being tested on human subjects without safeguards.

hguhghuff 8y ago
So right. By desperately hanging on to criminalization of pot, politicians have created a much worse situation. My question is, is spice an issue in the places where pot is legal?
- cf498 8y ago
  You can witness the same in Russia with opiates and their desomorphine / crocodile consumption.
  - hguhghuff 8y ago
    I don’t think people last long on crocodile do they?
    - cf498 8y ago
      No they dont. I was referring to your comment about creating a worse situation.
    - etatoby 8y ago
      Maybe they won't last long on Spice either. Maybe that's the entire point, the UK Government's "final solution" to the "homeless problem." I hope I'm wrong and it's just the free market taking advantage of the weakest. Somehow that's preferable to a concerted effort to get rid of the unfit.
      - flycaliguy 8y ago
        If you are going to peddle a conspiracy, I suggest pointing the finger at China for this one.
  - aasasd 8y ago
    Out of the loop here, what happened? Afaik krokodil was around for ages.
- RealDinosaur 8y ago
  I moved from Manchester (in the Article) to Holland a year ago. Maybe my comment might be insightful. No it's not a problem here... Illegal drugs are still a thing, but anything that was in Manchester an 'ex-legal high' tends to be sold at SmartShops which have a brick-and-mortar presence. I have never seen anyone who was obviously a spice-head. I've seen some homeless people here (much less than in Manchester), but they actually mainly just chat (in English) to me and ask for help rather than pure begging. Holland actively helps homeless people which is less than I can say for the UK. I've been asked for help about 4 times in 1 year in the Netherlands. I got asked once a day in Manchester. In London, I got asked 4 times a day! The spice epidemic in Manchester, isn't purely a result of drug law. The current UK government has no compassion for the homeless or unemployed. If you force people into vulnerable situations, then they are going to be taken advantage of. # Another story about why spice is popular... About 6 years ago, the place in the article (Piccadilly Gardens), had sellers trading weed. It was terrible stuff, both low quantity, and low value, but it was clearly labeled with a green cannabis leaf. It was relatively harmless. If you asked anyone 'where could i get some', it was the first answer. About 4 years ago, they increased police presence in Piccadilly Gardens due to complaints about 'the smell'. Local newspapers wrote about it, and the end result were, several of the dealers were arrested. These were dealers that had been operating for years, and were the closest thing to a 'go-to' place there was in the city center. 4 years ago, ex-legal highs were not yet outlawed. It's not hard to imagine what happened with the vacuum. For me, weed is not longer exciting. It is a take it or leave it thing now, and I am much more concerned with my relationship with alcohol... but yeah... Spice is a problem because weed is a 'class B drug' now.
  - rocgf 8y ago
    I currently live in Manchester and your comment is insightful, thanks. As far as I have read in other articles, spice is also way cheaper than weed, maybe this has been a contributing factor as well. The sight of comatose homeless people in Manchester's city center is part of the scenery and extremely sad. Also, Piccadilly Gardens is still 'the place' where drugs are sold, at least as far as I know. I got asked more than once if I 'want anything' by shady-looking individuals. The smell is still there, both in Piccadilly and, generally, in Manchester. As a personal anecdote, excluding the areas right next to coffeeshops, you can smell weed more often in Manchester than in Amsterdam.
- aphextron 8y ago
  >My question is, is spice an issue in the places where pot is legal? It’s basically unheard of in California since you can just walk into a store and buy weed. It’s still a problem in the midwest though.
  - fragmede 8y ago
    It depends on if you believe the news/plice does extensive critical research on the street names of drugs. Eg, this was due to "bath salts" https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/vallejo-men-in-naked-drug-fueled-rampage-identified/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/vallejo-men-in-...
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"I doubt that these synthetic cannabinoids would have become notable articles of commerce" I don't see the logic here. Legalization will undoubtedly entail considerably more use, more experimentation, more demand for exotics.
- trentlott 8y ago
  Does that mean Spice, or does that entail breeding higher potency strains with new smells and various levels of CBD or whatever? As a non-pot user, Spice seems to lack the 'fun' of marijuana- the herbology, aesthetics, and equipment. Very few people enjoy beer or whisky and decide they will start drinking isopropanol or Everclear to satisfy their interest. They dive deeper, going for IPAs and single malts and tend to be pretty single-minded about their preference. It's a strange argument, and goes back to the question of how Spice/legalization correlate. People mostly do research chemicals as a stand-in for their drug of interest. I sincerely doubt legalization would cause "considerably more" than prohibition, and I'd like to see any evidence that it does. This is the 'gateway drug' canard repackaged.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Drugs are not beer. It's not about some 'taste'. Drugs are there to get a little whack and messed up, and drugs for many are all about experimentation and finding a new buzz. More of it will yield more experimentation. And yes, a lot of people drink crazy high alcohol stuff unfortunately, that's why it's strictly controlled.
spaceflunky 8y ago
Did you read the article? One of the main problems with spice is that it is being used by people who aren't supposed to be using any drugs (alcohol included) because it doesn't show up on a drug test. Even if weed were legal it would still be off limits to those on parole and such, so those people would still use spice.

hguhghuff 8y ago

So right. By desperately hanging on to criminalization of pot, politicians have created a much worse situation. My question is, is spice an issue in the places where pot is legal?

cf498 8y ago
You can witness the same in Russia with opiates and their desomorphine / crocodile consumption.
- hguhghuff 8y ago
  I don’t think people last long on crocodile do they?
  - cf498 8y ago
    No they dont. I was referring to your comment about creating a worse situation.
  - etatoby 8y ago
    Maybe they won't last long on Spice either. Maybe that's the entire point, the UK Government's "final solution" to the "homeless problem." I hope I'm wrong and it's just the free market taking advantage of the weakest. Somehow that's preferable to a concerted effort to get rid of the unfit.
    - flycaliguy 8y ago
      If you are going to peddle a conspiracy, I suggest pointing the finger at China for this one.
- aasasd 8y ago
  Out of the loop here, what happened? Afaik krokodil was around for ages.
RealDinosaur 8y ago
I moved from Manchester (in the Article) to Holland a year ago. Maybe my comment might be insightful. No it's not a problem here... Illegal drugs are still a thing, but anything that was in Manchester an 'ex-legal high' tends to be sold at SmartShops which have a brick-and-mortar presence. I have never seen anyone who was obviously a spice-head. I've seen some homeless people here (much less than in Manchester), but they actually mainly just chat (in English) to me and ask for help rather than pure begging. Holland actively helps homeless people which is less than I can say for the UK. I've been asked for help about 4 times in 1 year in the Netherlands. I got asked once a day in Manchester. In London, I got asked 4 times a day! The spice epidemic in Manchester, isn't purely a result of drug law. The current UK government has no compassion for the homeless or unemployed. If you force people into vulnerable situations, then they are going to be taken advantage of. # Another story about why spice is popular... About 6 years ago, the place in the article (Piccadilly Gardens), had sellers trading weed. It was terrible stuff, both low quantity, and low value, but it was clearly labeled with a green cannabis leaf. It was relatively harmless. If you asked anyone 'where could i get some', it was the first answer. About 4 years ago, they increased police presence in Piccadilly Gardens due to complaints about 'the smell'. Local newspapers wrote about it, and the end result were, several of the dealers were arrested. These were dealers that had been operating for years, and were the closest thing to a 'go-to' place there was in the city center. 4 years ago, ex-legal highs were not yet outlawed. It's not hard to imagine what happened with the vacuum. For me, weed is not longer exciting. It is a take it or leave it thing now, and I am much more concerned with my relationship with alcohol... but yeah... Spice is a problem because weed is a 'class B drug' now.
- rocgf 8y ago
  I currently live in Manchester and your comment is insightful, thanks. As far as I have read in other articles, spice is also way cheaper than weed, maybe this has been a contributing factor as well. The sight of comatose homeless people in Manchester's city center is part of the scenery and extremely sad. Also, Piccadilly Gardens is still 'the place' where drugs are sold, at least as far as I know. I got asked more than once if I 'want anything' by shady-looking individuals. The smell is still there, both in Piccadilly and, generally, in Manchester. As a personal anecdote, excluding the areas right next to coffeeshops, you can smell weed more often in Manchester than in Amsterdam.
aphextron 8y ago
>My question is, is spice an issue in the places where pot is legal? It’s basically unheard of in California since you can just walk into a store and buy weed. It’s still a problem in the midwest though.
- fragmede 8y ago
  It depends on if you believe the news/plice does extensive critical research on the street names of drugs. Eg, this was due to "bath salts" https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/vallejo-men-in-naked-drug-fueled-rampage-identified/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/vallejo-men-in-...

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"I doubt that these synthetic cannabinoids would have become notable articles of commerce" I don't see the logic here. Legalization will undoubtedly entail considerably more use, more experimentation, more demand for exotics.

trentlott 8y ago
Does that mean Spice, or does that entail breeding higher potency strains with new smells and various levels of CBD or whatever? As a non-pot user, Spice seems to lack the 'fun' of marijuana- the herbology, aesthetics, and equipment. Very few people enjoy beer or whisky and decide they will start drinking isopropanol or Everclear to satisfy their interest. They dive deeper, going for IPAs and single malts and tend to be pretty single-minded about their preference. It's a strange argument, and goes back to the question of how Spice/legalization correlate. People mostly do research chemicals as a stand-in for their drug of interest. I sincerely doubt legalization would cause "considerably more" than prohibition, and I'd like to see any evidence that it does. This is the 'gateway drug' canard repackaged.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Drugs are not beer. It's not about some 'taste'. Drugs are there to get a little whack and messed up, and drugs for many are all about experimentation and finding a new buzz. More of it will yield more experimentation. And yes, a lot of people drink crazy high alcohol stuff unfortunately, that's why it's strictly controlled.

spaceflunky 8y ago

Did you read the article? One of the main problems with spice is that it is being used by people who aren't supposed to be using any drugs (alcohol included) because it doesn't show up on a drug test. Even if weed were legal it would still be off limits to those on parole and such, so those people would still use spice.