7 ms·

Instagram founders left because of changes imposed from above

141 points by throwawaybbqed 8y ago

TekMol 8y ago
I wonder what drives people at this stage of success. The article talks about a fight regarding weather or not to implement a TV like service into Instagram. When you have built something like Instagram, is that really the next step you deeply care about? Implementing the next feature?
- macawfish 8y ago
  They're trying to milk it for all the money they can get at this point. Very sad.
- noobermin 8y ago
  I guess it's hard, sort of like staying for the kids. The thing is they built ig, and now they are literally letting it go in fb's hands just to get away from Zuckerberg. Either "six years was enough" is at least 30% or some small fraction to make the difference or they must have faced some serious strife and conflict to prompt them to leave under these circumstances.
  - wmeredith 8y ago
    I'm not a fan of Zuck or FB, but they did sell it (for more money than most users on this board will see in their lifetime). It's not like it was stolen and they have to walk away.
  - lozenge 8y ago
    They have already let it go, the question is whether they want to be around while Zuckerberg' s vision is imposed on their kid.
- anon49124 8y ago
  Vesting schedule, eg, golden handcuffs, that are part of the terms of the m&a deal. They (usually) don't just hand you only a pile of stock, they want the tech founders to keep working on this thing as long as possible, so that they're a) not building something else cool that someone else will buy and b) keep any other corp from hiring them (talent m&a play). Put up with random crap at gigacorp until you can walk away with another X deci/centimillion$.
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    Is it possible that 6 years was their vesting schedule?
macawfish 8y ago
I can tell they left. Right after they left, the number of ads nearly doubled and I was prompted to upload my phone's contacts.
- hd4 8y ago
  >I was prompted to upload my phone's contacts Maybe I was naive and willing to give the benefit of the doubt to tech corporations, but I always hoped this was requested for benign purposes (not that I ever allowed it except maybe once in my life because there was an incentive bonus). I'm glad you've cleared up my misconception on this.
  - buro9 8y ago
    I thought the same, but my reaction now is to have deleted my account.
danpalmer 8y ago
> “Social media is in a pre-Newtonian moment, where we all understand that it works, but not how it works,” Mr. Systrom told me, comparing this moment in the tech world to the time before man could explain gravity. “There are certain rules that govern it and we have to make it our priority to understand the rules, or we cannot control it.” This is the person I want running a social media today.
ismail 8y ago
Facebook is going to get worse and so is Zuckerberg. I would short FB if I had a position. The reasoning is, once you see a CEO installing loyal lieutenants. Who does not value conflicting, and opposing views. You know the company will loose the plot soon. With out any moderation from others I believe that FB will accelerate their disregard for their users while publicly communicating something else. Fundamentally the Instagram founders and WhatsApp founders leaving is due to a values conflict with Zuckerberg and the culture at FB. My theory is there are the values they talk about and communicate externally, which is not congruent with what is practiced. There was conflict due to these unspoken values and Zuckerberg took the easy way out. Install people loyal to him. This is a sign of weak leadership. Edit: It also seems like ego is getting the better of Z “Severe cutbacks ordered by Mr. Zuckerberg in how much Instagram was promoted on the main Facebook platform” Either that or instagram ads are not as profitable as FB? Edit2: “That’s a shame, since that’s exactly what Facebook needs. Which is to say, people willing to challenge the groupthink that for too long included a stubborn resistance to admitting and addressing the company’s flaws.” This is the biggest danger
- flyinglizard 8y ago
  The problem with shorting is that everything they’re doing is driving towards higher revenue. Any negative effects of their actions could be measured in years, not months or quarters. The other issue is that more than anyone, Facebook very shrewdly mitigated their competition by M&A; where would users go?
  - yhoneycomb 8y ago
    Exactly. Shorting leaves you vulnerable to an infinite amount of debt. It's not as easy as it sounds.
    - mmt 8y ago
      Outright short-selling has unbounded losses, but there are other ways of "being short" (i.e. betting on a price drop) where the loss is limited, such as buying put options, though these tend to be time-limited as well, to a couple years.
yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
I don't believe this will make much difference. I think the platform had already been in decline for at least the past year, because IG seems to be moving away from what made it compelling in the first place. I don't know what algorithmic changes they've made, but my experience is far less "organic" content from real people, and far more exposure given to the local IG celebrities, low-quality meme stuff optimised for engagement, and impersonal marketing stuff. It used to be about people. I don't think it is anymore.
- jakobegger 8y ago
  I think it's the same with every social network. People start using it, they're excited, put their stuff out there, it's fun to use. Then, after a few years the marketers realise that is a thing, and all of a sudden all the content from your friends sits next to all this professional content. People don't feel like their stuff is good enough, and they stop posting, preferring to browse all the awesome stuff from other people. And at the end, everyone stops checking in as frequently, because they realise that none of the fun, exciting stuff is left, it's only marketing for crappy products with a thin veneer of thoughtfulness sprinkled on top.
sxp62000 8y ago
Lately, Instagram has become very pushy. If you go to your profile page in the app, it shows notification badges at the top right corner for stuff that might have happened in the Facebook app. It's so unnecessary! I'm sure FB wants to push more changes like that. All good things must come to an end ... sigh.
- makecheck 8y ago
  Man I hate notification dots that won’t go away. Like in PayPal, there’s a “notification” that I have a “to-do” for setting up a new profile! That is something I will never do, it’s not something I can mark as “read”, it’s just a damned red dot in the corner forever now.
ummonk 8y ago
So that is why longer Instagram videos aren’t a thing yet? Zuck not wanting to risk competition with videos on FB? How stubbornly short sighted.

I wonder what drives people at this stage of success. The article talks about a fight regarding weather or not to implement a TV like service into Instagram. When you have built something like Instagram, is that really the next step you deeply care about? Implementing the next feature?

macawfish 8y ago
They're trying to milk it for all the money they can get at this point. Very sad.
noobermin 8y ago
I guess it's hard, sort of like staying for the kids. The thing is they built ig, and now they are literally letting it go in fb's hands just to get away from Zuckerberg. Either "six years was enough" is at least 30% or some small fraction to make the difference or they must have faced some serious strife and conflict to prompt them to leave under these circumstances.
- wmeredith 8y ago
  I'm not a fan of Zuck or FB, but they did sell it (for more money than most users on this board will see in their lifetime). It's not like it was stolen and they have to walk away.
- lozenge 8y ago
  They have already let it go, the question is whether they want to be around while Zuckerberg' s vision is imposed on their kid.
anon49124 8y ago
Vesting schedule, eg, golden handcuffs, that are part of the terms of the m&a deal. They (usually) don't just hand you only a pile of stock, they want the tech founders to keep working on this thing as long as possible, so that they're a) not building something else cool that someone else will buy and b) keep any other corp from hiring them (talent m&a play). Put up with random crap at gigacorp until you can walk away with another X deci/centimillion$.
- Simon_says 8y ago
  Is it possible that 6 years was their vesting schedule?

macawfish 8y ago

I can tell they left. Right after they left, the number of ads nearly doubled and I was prompted to upload my phone's contacts.

hd4 8y ago
>I was prompted to upload my phone's contacts Maybe I was naive and willing to give the benefit of the doubt to tech corporations, but I always hoped this was requested for benign purposes (not that I ever allowed it except maybe once in my life because there was an incentive bonus). I'm glad you've cleared up my misconception on this.
- buro9 8y ago
  I thought the same, but my reaction now is to have deleted my account.

danpalmer 8y ago

> “Social media is in a pre-Newtonian moment, where we all understand that it works, but not how it works,” Mr. Systrom told me, comparing this moment in the tech world to the time before man could explain gravity. “There are certain rules that govern it and we have to make it our priority to understand the rules, or we cannot control it.” This is the person I want running a social media today.

ismail 8y ago

Facebook is going to get worse and so is Zuckerberg. I would short FB if I had a position. The reasoning is, once you see a CEO installing loyal lieutenants. Who does not value conflicting, and opposing views. You know the company will loose the plot soon. With out any moderation from others I believe that FB will accelerate their disregard for their users while publicly communicating something else. Fundamentally the Instagram founders and WhatsApp founders leaving is due to a values conflict with Zuckerberg and the culture at FB. My theory is there are the values they talk about and communicate externally, which is not congruent with what is practiced. There was conflict due to these unspoken values and Zuckerberg took the easy way out. Install people loyal to him. This is a sign of weak leadership. Edit: It also seems like ego is getting the better of Z “Severe cutbacks ordered by Mr. Zuckerberg in how much Instagram was promoted on the main Facebook platform” Either that or instagram ads are not as profitable as FB? Edit2: “That’s a shame, since that’s exactly what Facebook needs. Which is to say, people willing to challenge the groupthink that for too long included a stubborn resistance to admitting and addressing the company’s flaws.” This is the biggest danger

flyinglizard 8y ago
The problem with shorting is that everything they’re doing is driving towards higher revenue. Any negative effects of their actions could be measured in years, not months or quarters. The other issue is that more than anyone, Facebook very shrewdly mitigated their competition by M&A; where would users go?
- yhoneycomb 8y ago
  Exactly. Shorting leaves you vulnerable to an infinite amount of debt. It's not as easy as it sounds.
  - mmt 8y ago
    Outright short-selling has unbounded losses, but there are other ways of "being short" (i.e. betting on a price drop) where the loss is limited, such as buying put options, though these tend to be time-limited as well, to a couple years.

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago

I don't believe this will make much difference. I think the platform had already been in decline for at least the past year, because IG seems to be moving away from what made it compelling in the first place. I don't know what algorithmic changes they've made, but my experience is far less "organic" content from real people, and far more exposure given to the local IG celebrities, low-quality meme stuff optimised for engagement, and impersonal marketing stuff. It used to be about people. I don't think it is anymore.

jakobegger 8y ago
I think it's the same with every social network. People start using it, they're excited, put their stuff out there, it's fun to use. Then, after a few years the marketers realise that is a thing, and all of a sudden all the content from your friends sits next to all this professional content. People don't feel like their stuff is good enough, and they stop posting, preferring to browse all the awesome stuff from other people. And at the end, everyone stops checking in as frequently, because they realise that none of the fun, exciting stuff is left, it's only marketing for crappy products with a thin veneer of thoughtfulness sprinkled on top.

sxp62000 8y ago

Lately, Instagram has become very pushy. If you go to your profile page in the app, it shows notification badges at the top right corner for stuff that might have happened in the Facebook app. It's so unnecessary! I'm sure FB wants to push more changes like that. All good things must come to an end ... sigh.

makecheck 8y ago
Man I hate notification dots that won’t go away. Like in PayPal, there’s a “notification” that I have a “to-do” for setting up a new profile! That is something I will never do, it’s not something I can mark as “read”, it’s just a damned red dot in the corner forever now.

ummonk 8y ago

So that is why longer Instagram videos aren’t a thing yet? Zuck not wanting to risk competition with videos on FB? How stubbornly short sighted.