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> A whole world currency that is potentially immune to inflation and government manipulation. You said potentially, so I’ll give you this one. > No currency c

> A whole world currency that is potentially immune to inflation and government manipulation. You said potentially, so I’ll give you this one. > No currency conversion fees. This is a function of the market, not the underlying instruments. It’s also not true of most crypto markets, and I’m not confusing the spread with fees at exchanges. > The ability to send funds to anyone with no middle man and no fee (besides the miners). No fee (besides the miners) isn’t much different to no fee (except this fee). It’s still a fee, and in the case of Bitcoin, the fee has potential to be prohibitive (and already is for some use cases that it was designed for, e.g. buying a cup of coffee). > Also the removal of business and corporate surveillance. Right now Banks, Mastercard, stripe, venmo etc. know everything about you. They can then leverage that information in any way that they want. I don't like that. You run for office on an anti banking or big business platform and amazingly its leaked that you have an ongoing monthly subscription to X. Bitcoin is not anonymous, Monero could be unmasked[1], if you’re leaving a digital footprint, someone will eventually be able to follow it. [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.04299.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.04299.pdf

jeremyt 8y ago
Look, if you are going to be a critic then you can't stand behind ignorance. The "fees are just too high to buy a cup of coffee" is an old trope that is no longer relevant. One can go download LND 0.5 and use the lightning network to make instant practically free payments for a "cup of coffee" today. The only thing I'll concede is that it is still in beta, but the question of whether it's going to exist or not is no longer a question.
- badge 8y ago
  The way Lightening Network is designed kills the p2p aspect of the Bitcoin protocol.. LN is predictably to benefit capital holders with enough excess capital to act as the backbone hubs. Normal users will be unable to bypass the Bitcoin banking/payment processor LN hubs and unable to reliably route though peer to peer paths on the LN. This presumably is intended to enrich the Bitcoin oligarchs as a passive way to extract rent and wealth on the network simply for controlling existing capital. This design choice indicates either a comic level of negligence, or intent to shift away from p2p to centralized information control. only a 1% chance of successfully routing a $67 payment on the lightning network: https://i.redd.it/twku0lwslz411.jpg https://i.redd.it/twku0lwslz411.jpg Sending payments using the Lightning Network is cheaper than the regular Bitcoin network, but suffers from routing errors and wallet bugs that make it impractical even for highly technical users. [1] [1] https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-3-paying-for-goods-and-services-5d9c492b0eb2 https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightnin...
  - jeremyt 8y ago
    This is mostly nonsense. If you don't want to use an LN hub, then create your own. If you don't have enough money, then raise some capital and start a LN hub business. Hell, create a non-profit LN hub! If you don't want to pay for the service of using other LN hubs, then send a direct payment. Of course, this will cost real money, but you always have that option. If I'm sending money to purchase a house, you can bet I'm going to send an actual transaction and not use the lightning network. For cups of coffee, I just don't need the full decentralization. Claiming that we will not be able to solve the routing problem on the lightning network is exactly the same as claiming that we won't be able to solve the routing problem on the Internet. Routing is a solved problem, but is a difficult problem to implement, which is why the clients are in BETA. Your link is bullshit, as I mentioned the network is in BETA. Of course people don't have a bunch of money on the lightning network and can't route large payments like $67. That's because the network is in BETA, and all of the platforms are expressly telling people not to use it for large payments.
    - badge 8y ago
      Claiming that we will not be able to solve the routing problem on the lightning network is exactly the same as claiming that we won't be able to solve the routing problem on the Internet. Routing is a solved problem, but is a difficult problem to implement, which is why the clients are in BETA. You clearly don't understand the architectural differences between how the internet routes packets, and what how the Lightening Network claims to be a decentralized routing protocol. Nodes in a decentralized network have no visibility to peers unless there's a map, the map needs to be updated, and in a payment network the complexity increases as nodes and activity increases. LN will not function for p2p decentralization, it is a design choice that creates Bitcoin banks and Bitcoin payment processors. For digital payments I could skip the scam and use Venmo or cash. I don't get why anyone would bother wasting their money on LN? You have to first buy the Bitcoins which is highly volatile so the risk of losing your money is always possible. What's the use case? Why bother going though all the trouble and why is there a need to buy someone elses tokens which they basically made for free? It sounds like you need to convince people to use Bitcoin because you own some and need more people to buy it so you can sell for fiat and make real money. Why else would you try to dismiss the inherent issue with race conditions in decentralized routing networks? Handwaving the flaw by saying "it'll be fixed in the future" is either your ignorance or a lie and an attempt to deceive. You can't even claim it's the fault of beta software, because it's not even theoretically possible to solve the decentralized routing problem. LN is just another form of paypal/banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem Quiet obvious how your scam works.

jeremyt 8y ago

Look, if you are going to be a critic then you can't stand behind ignorance. The "fees are just too high to buy a cup of coffee" is an old trope that is no longer relevant. One can go download LND 0.5 and use the lightning network to make instant practically free payments for a "cup of coffee" today. The only thing I'll concede is that it is still in beta, but the question of whether it's going to exist or not is no longer a question.

badge 8y ago
The way Lightening Network is designed kills the p2p aspect of the Bitcoin protocol.. LN is predictably to benefit capital holders with enough excess capital to act as the backbone hubs. Normal users will be unable to bypass the Bitcoin banking/payment processor LN hubs and unable to reliably route though peer to peer paths on the LN. This presumably is intended to enrich the Bitcoin oligarchs as a passive way to extract rent and wealth on the network simply for controlling existing capital. This design choice indicates either a comic level of negligence, or intent to shift away from p2p to centralized information control. only a 1% chance of successfully routing a $67 payment on the lightning network: https://i.redd.it/twku0lwslz411.jpg https://i.redd.it/twku0lwslz411.jpg Sending payments using the Lightning Network is cheaper than the regular Bitcoin network, but suffers from routing errors and wallet bugs that make it impractical even for highly technical users. [1] [1] https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-3-paying-for-goods-and-services-5d9c492b0eb2 https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightnin...
- jeremyt 8y ago
  This is mostly nonsense. If you don't want to use an LN hub, then create your own. If you don't have enough money, then raise some capital and start a LN hub business. Hell, create a non-profit LN hub! If you don't want to pay for the service of using other LN hubs, then send a direct payment. Of course, this will cost real money, but you always have that option. If I'm sending money to purchase a house, you can bet I'm going to send an actual transaction and not use the lightning network. For cups of coffee, I just don't need the full decentralization. Claiming that we will not be able to solve the routing problem on the lightning network is exactly the same as claiming that we won't be able to solve the routing problem on the Internet. Routing is a solved problem, but is a difficult problem to implement, which is why the clients are in BETA. Your link is bullshit, as I mentioned the network is in BETA. Of course people don't have a bunch of money on the lightning network and can't route large payments like $67. That's because the network is in BETA, and all of the platforms are expressly telling people not to use it for large payments.
  - badge 8y ago
    Claiming that we will not be able to solve the routing problem on the lightning network is exactly the same as claiming that we won't be able to solve the routing problem on the Internet. Routing is a solved problem, but is a difficult problem to implement, which is why the clients are in BETA. You clearly don't understand the architectural differences between how the internet routes packets, and what how the Lightening Network claims to be a decentralized routing protocol. Nodes in a decentralized network have no visibility to peers unless there's a map, the map needs to be updated, and in a payment network the complexity increases as nodes and activity increases. LN will not function for p2p decentralization, it is a design choice that creates Bitcoin banks and Bitcoin payment processors. For digital payments I could skip the scam and use Venmo or cash. I don't get why anyone would bother wasting their money on LN? You have to first buy the Bitcoins which is highly volatile so the risk of losing your money is always possible. What's the use case? Why bother going though all the trouble and why is there a need to buy someone elses tokens which they basically made for free? It sounds like you need to convince people to use Bitcoin because you own some and need more people to buy it so you can sell for fiat and make real money. Why else would you try to dismiss the inherent issue with race conditions in decentralized routing networks? Handwaving the flaw by saying "it'll be fixed in the future" is either your ignorance or a lie and an attempt to deceive. You can't even claim it's the fault of beta software, because it's not even theoretically possible to solve the decentralized routing problem. LN is just another form of paypal/banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem Quiet obvious how your scam works.