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A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

79 points by whocansay 8y ago

btilly 8y ago
Interesting tidbit about Winston Churchill. He was the only person in any of the major warring powers to have held high office in both WW 1 and WW 2. In WW 1 he was in charge of the British navy (though he did resign after Gallipoli). In WW 2 he, of course, rose to Prime Minister. What is more surprising, perhaps, is that this is a claim that nobody else can make. But when you examine it, it is in the nature of democracy that there is regular turnover of those at the top. This happened in Britain, France and the USA. And the various non-democracies involved all had changes of government between the start of WW 1 and WW 2, which again results in turnover of those at the top. So he became very successful. Whether this was because of, or in spite of, his mother's disappointment is another question. (I would be inclined on general principle to guess "because of", but I don't know enough for an educated opinion.)
- robotkdick 8y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out. I knew it, but the uniqueness had not been clear. He is an intriguing character and an anomaly in so many ways, and I would say that is because, in large part, of his relationship with his mother, whom he befuddled (like so many others in his life), but she nonetheless adored him.
  - btilly 8y ago
    A strong-willed mother can be found behind many famous people. Or at least that was one of the findings in https://www.amazon.com/Cradles-Eminence-Childhoods-Famous-Women/dp/091070757X https://www.amazon.com/Cradles-Eminence-Childhoods-Famous-Wo.... (A book I'm familiar with because my mother read it and applied its lessons in odd ways to her parenting..) That is why on general principle I would expect his mother to likely be a cause for his success.
- rfinney 8y ago
  Stalin was a leader in the Russian (Soviet) Government late in World War I: "Stalin became part of an informal foursome leading the government, alongside Lenin, Trotsky, and Sverdlov;[183] of these, Sverdlov was regularly absent, and died in March 1919.[184] Stalin's office was based near to Lenin's in the Smolny Institute,[185] and he and Trotsky were the only individuals allowed access to Lenin's study without an appointment." ... Stalin was appointed the People's Commissar for Nationalities. [ date? ] [ from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Consolidating_power:_1917%E2%80%931918 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Consolidating_po... ] Franklin Roosevelt also held a relatively high office: Assistant Secretary of the Navy.
  - btilly 8y ago
    That was after Russia had departed from the war.
    - philwelch 8y ago
      Although the rest of the Allies hastily invaded Russia in an attempt to overthrow the Bolsheviks--perhaps a bit of a side war to WWI, akin to the Russian invasions of Finland.
    - rfinney 8y ago
      Check: In November, 1917, Vladimir Lenin rewarded Joseph Stalin for his support of the October Revolution by appointing him Commissar of Nationalities. [ source : https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnationalities.htm https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnationalities.htm ] The Germans agreed to let the Russians negotiate a peace treaty. Lenin, leader of the Russian revolution, sent Trotsky, his second in command, to the Polish town of Brest-Litovsk to make the negotiations. Trotsky refused the terms of the treaty initially, but had to sign in March 1918 when the German army responded to his delaying tactics by resuming an invasion of Russia. [ source : https://classroom.synonym.com/significance-russian-withdrawal-wwi-5281.html https://classroom.synonym.com/significance-russian-withdrawa... ]
- simplicio 8y ago
  Petain was Commander and Chief of the French forces in WWI, prime-minister of France during WWII and leader of Vichy France. So not only a major leader in both wars, but in the second war he held high office on both sides! (and FDR was Asst Sec of the Navy in WWI if you count that as a high office)
- nabla9 8y ago
  Another tidbit about the war. World War goes better when drunk. Churchill and Stalin were alcoholics. Hitler might or might not have Blitzed with coke/opiates and meth.
- microtherion 8y ago
  This is all the more remarkable as Churchill, whatever his other qualities, demonstrated terrible military judgment in WWI (and, some argue, in WW II as well).
StefanKarpinski 8y ago
It is unclear to me from the context whether this is an excerpt of a fictitious letter from Churchill's mother to him as a child or if this is a real historical letter. Edit: to answer my own question, it seems to be an excerpt from a book of actual letters between Churchill and his mother: https://www.amazon.com/My-Darling-Winston-Letters-Churchill/dp/1681778823 https://www.amazon.com/My-Darling-Winston-Letters-Churchill/....
olivermarks 8y ago
Churchill was a notorious scoundrel, constantly in debt and bailed out by unsavoury characters https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champagne-churchill-and-money-david-lough-review/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champ... '...On his first day at school, Winston Churchill asked his mother for more cash. She groused: “You do get through it in the most rapid manner… and the more you have the more you want to spend.” He was 13, and already he was spending more than a family “of six or seven have to live upon”.....
- qubax 8y ago
  > Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the world hates churchill because the guy was virulently racist, genocidal and a war criminal. The things churchill said and did were no different than what hitler said and did. The first time I heard my indian colleague say something negative about churchill, I was shocked because I was so conditioned into thinking the guy represented good. "As the resistance swelled, he announced: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion." This hatred killed. To give just one, major, example, in 1943 a famine broke out in Bengal, caused – as the Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen has proved – by the imperial policies of the British. Up to 3 million people starved to death while British officials begged Churchill to direct food supplies to the region. He bluntly refused. He raged that it was their own fault for "breeding like rabbits". At other times, he said the plague was "merrily" culling the population." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-fines... Were it not for the unprecedented horrors of hitler, churchill would rank up there with the worst of the leaders of the 20th century.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Many historical figures are like that. Both great & terrible. Ghandi, too, had his major flaws completely unbefitting his image.
return-value 8y ago
but Winston you are old enough to see how serious this is to you—& how the next year or two & the use you make of them, will affect your whole life She sounds like a terrible mother, but those lines aren’t wrong. I squandered a lot of my youth, and I’m paying the price now. I can’t change it, and even if I could I doubt my younger self would take it serious, but how you spend your twenties really determine how you spend the next 40 years of your life. That’s not to say you can’t change or catch up, Churchill is a testimony to that, but the hard work won’t do itself.
- philwelch 8y ago
  I don't think she sounds like a terrible mother at all. Sometimes a wayward son needs some tough love--and I don't think that idea was the slightest bit uncomfortable to a British mother in the Victorian era.

79 points by whocansay 8y ago

Interesting tidbit about Winston Churchill. He was the only person in any of the major warring powers to have held high office in both WW 1 and WW 2. In WW 1 he was in charge of the British navy (though he did resign after Gallipoli). In WW 2 he, of course, rose to Prime Minister. What is more surprising, perhaps, is that this is a claim that nobody else can make. But when you examine it, it is in the nature of democracy that there is regular turnover of those at the top. This happened in Britain, France and the USA. And the various non-democracies involved all had changes of government between the start of WW 1 and WW 2, which again results in turnover of those at the top. So he became very successful. Whether this was because of, or in spite of, his mother's disappointment is another question. (I would be inclined on general principle to guess "because of", but I don't know enough for an educated opinion.)

robotkdick 8y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. I knew it, but the uniqueness had not been clear. He is an intriguing character and an anomaly in so many ways, and I would say that is because, in large part, of his relationship with his mother, whom he befuddled (like so many others in his life), but she nonetheless adored him.
- btilly 8y ago
  A strong-willed mother can be found behind many famous people. Or at least that was one of the findings in https://www.amazon.com/Cradles-Eminence-Childhoods-Famous-Women/dp/091070757X https://www.amazon.com/Cradles-Eminence-Childhoods-Famous-Wo.... (A book I'm familiar with because my mother read it and applied its lessons in odd ways to her parenting..) That is why on general principle I would expect his mother to likely be a cause for his success.
rfinney 8y ago
Stalin was a leader in the Russian (Soviet) Government late in World War I: "Stalin became part of an informal foursome leading the government, alongside Lenin, Trotsky, and Sverdlov;[183] of these, Sverdlov was regularly absent, and died in March 1919.[184] Stalin's office was based near to Lenin's in the Smolny Institute,[185] and he and Trotsky were the only individuals allowed access to Lenin's study without an appointment." ... Stalin was appointed the People's Commissar for Nationalities. [ date? ] [ from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Consolidating_power:_1917%E2%80%931918 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Consolidating_po... ] Franklin Roosevelt also held a relatively high office: Assistant Secretary of the Navy.
- btilly 8y ago
  That was after Russia had departed from the war.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    Although the rest of the Allies hastily invaded Russia in an attempt to overthrow the Bolsheviks--perhaps a bit of a side war to WWI, akin to the Russian invasions of Finland.
  - rfinney 8y ago
    Check: In November, 1917, Vladimir Lenin rewarded Joseph Stalin for his support of the October Revolution by appointing him Commissar of Nationalities. [ source : https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnationalities.htm https://spartacus-educational.com/RUSnationalities.htm ] The Germans agreed to let the Russians negotiate a peace treaty. Lenin, leader of the Russian revolution, sent Trotsky, his second in command, to the Polish town of Brest-Litovsk to make the negotiations. Trotsky refused the terms of the treaty initially, but had to sign in March 1918 when the German army responded to his delaying tactics by resuming an invasion of Russia. [ source : https://classroom.synonym.com/significance-russian-withdrawal-wwi-5281.html https://classroom.synonym.com/significance-russian-withdrawa... ]
simplicio 8y ago
Petain was Commander and Chief of the French forces in WWI, prime-minister of France during WWII and leader of Vichy France. So not only a major leader in both wars, but in the second war he held high office on both sides! (and FDR was Asst Sec of the Navy in WWI if you count that as a high office)
nabla9 8y ago
Another tidbit about the war. World War goes better when drunk. Churchill and Stalin were alcoholics. Hitler might or might not have Blitzed with coke/opiates and meth.
microtherion 8y ago
This is all the more remarkable as Churchill, whatever his other qualities, demonstrated terrible military judgment in WWI (and, some argue, in WW II as well).

StefanKarpinski 8y ago

It is unclear to me from the context whether this is an excerpt of a fictitious letter from Churchill's mother to him as a child or if this is a real historical letter. Edit: to answer my own question, it seems to be an excerpt from a book of actual letters between Churchill and his mother: https://www.amazon.com/My-Darling-Winston-Letters-Churchill/dp/1681778823 https://www.amazon.com/My-Darling-Winston-Letters-Churchill/....

olivermarks 8y ago

Churchill was a notorious scoundrel, constantly in debt and bailed out by unsavoury characters https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champagne-churchill-and-money-david-lough-review/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champ... '...On his first day at school, Winston Churchill asked his mother for more cash. She groused: “You do get through it in the most rapid manner… and the more you have the more you want to spend.” He was 13, and already he was spending more than a family “of six or seven have to live upon”.....

qubax 8y ago
> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the world hates churchill because the guy was virulently racist, genocidal and a war criminal. The things churchill said and did were no different than what hitler said and did. The first time I heard my indian colleague say something negative about churchill, I was shocked because I was so conditioned into thinking the guy represented good. "As the resistance swelled, he announced: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion." This hatred killed. To give just one, major, example, in 1943 a famine broke out in Bengal, caused – as the Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen has proved – by the imperial policies of the British. Up to 3 million people starved to death while British officials begged Churchill to direct food supplies to the region. He bluntly refused. He raged that it was their own fault for "breeding like rabbits". At other times, he said the plague was "merrily" culling the population." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-fines... Were it not for the unprecedented horrors of hitler, churchill would rank up there with the worst of the leaders of the 20th century.
- ip26 8y ago
  Many historical figures are like that. Both great & terrible. Ghandi, too, had his major flaws completely unbefitting his image.

return-value 8y ago

but Winston you are old enough to see how serious this is to you—& how the next year or two & the use you make of them, will affect your whole life She sounds like a terrible mother, but those lines aren’t wrong. I squandered a lot of my youth, and I’m paying the price now. I can’t change it, and even if I could I doubt my younger self would take it serious, but how you spend your twenties really determine how you spend the next 40 years of your life. That’s not to say you can’t change or catch up, Churchill is a testimony to that, but the hard work won’t do itself.

philwelch 8y ago
I don't think she sounds like a terrible mother at all. Sometimes a wayward son needs some tough love--and I don't think that idea was the slightest bit uncomfortable to a British mother in the Victorian era.