4 ms·

For ICE vehicles perhaps, not for EVs, or we'd see more than a token manufacturing capacity from them. How many times did they manufacture 200k Volts or i3 EVs

by SEJeff 8y ago

For ICE vehicles perhaps, not for EVs, or we'd see more than a token manufacturing capacity from them. How many times did they manufacture 200k Volts or i3 EVs? Where is their serious battery production? Anything even 1/2 as big as the current gigafactory (which is about 30% finished and is still the aggregate battery capacity of almost every battery factory in the world in 2016).

Alupis 8y ago
Tesla's manufacturing woes are not with assembly of the EV components... it's with the build quality, speed and precision of assembling everything else, plus worker safety and required on-clock hours. This has been discussed here many times. It reminds me of Chipotle famously scoffing at McDonald's attempt to teach supply chain management and more... and then Chipotle routinely having shortages of food items, quality and consistency issues, or suffering from nation-wide food-safety outbreaks. Turns out they could have leaned a thing or two...
- SEJeff 8y ago
  That's fair, but I'm still a bit skeptical as most other manufacturers outsource the overwhelming majority of things where Tesla does things in-house. I mean they had to create their own Seat for the Model X as they wanted them to take an amount of force no "off the shelf" seat could. As a result, the traditional "scale up by buying more" model simply doesn't work quite as well. That said, Tesla could learn TONS from the rest of the industry, but that is why guys like Deepak Ahuja are executives there, their experience.
  - Alupis 8y ago
    Yes, but you must acknowledge having a seat manufacturing company design and manufacture the seats probably would have resulted in a better, cheaper seat that was available sooner and with less trouble... after all, it's the only thing the seat manufacturer does as a business. (I also don't believe the forces were so great that no seat could be bought or made by another company... some of the Tesla models have good performance... but they aren't alone in that arena) The seat is a flagship example of NIH Syndrome - the same syndrome that has led to bloated costs, reduced profitability and poor quality and craftsmanship of Tesla vehicles. Tesla is figuring out how to do things for the first time - solving problems that have already been solved, and solved well by others. Looking towards the heavy-weights in the field and learning a few things could go a long way... Also, they've had a lot of executive turnover... we've all heard the stories about what it's like to work for Mr. Musk...
    - SEJeff 8y ago
      I will acknowledge that they tried to have a seat manufacturing company design and manufacture the seats, and it failed: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-seats/teslas-seat-strategy-goes-against-the-grain-for-now-idUSKBN1CV0DS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-seats/teslas-seat-s... Gotta say, as a Model 3 owner, I don't see any build quality or poor craftsmanship in the vehicle and I took a very long time doing final inspection at the service center before taking delivery. I'm not saying it has the same build quality as say a high end Mercedes or BMW (the model 3 isn't in that category of vehicle), but it is the nicest car I've ever driven as a daily driver. He is trying to do something differently, and he very well might do it slower as a result, but vertical integration will definitely lead to lower costs in the long run as there is simply less of the middle tier. When it comes to the guts, there is nothing but quality, and tesla easily stands alone in that regard: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/tesla-model-3-stuns-german-engineers-wonders/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/tesla-model-3-stuns-ger... TL;DNR: People have been hating on Elon since he said that banking could be online (when he founded x.com that became most of what is now paypal), and when he said he would found a rocket company, and when he said his rockets would be reusable by landing on boats, etc. He'll get it eventually, or die trying.

by SEJeff 8y ago

Alupis 8y ago

Tesla's manufacturing woes are not with assembly of the EV components... it's with the build quality, speed and precision of assembling everything else, plus worker safety and required on-clock hours. This has been discussed here many times. It reminds me of Chipotle famously scoffing at McDonald's attempt to teach supply chain management and more... and then Chipotle routinely having shortages of food items, quality and consistency issues, or suffering from nation-wide food-safety outbreaks. Turns out they could have leaned a thing or two...

SEJeff 8y ago
That's fair, but I'm still a bit skeptical as most other manufacturers outsource the overwhelming majority of things where Tesla does things in-house. I mean they had to create their own Seat for the Model X as they wanted them to take an amount of force no "off the shelf" seat could. As a result, the traditional "scale up by buying more" model simply doesn't work quite as well. That said, Tesla could learn TONS from the rest of the industry, but that is why guys like Deepak Ahuja are executives there, their experience.
- Alupis 8y ago
  Yes, but you must acknowledge having a seat manufacturing company design and manufacture the seats probably would have resulted in a better, cheaper seat that was available sooner and with less trouble... after all, it's the only thing the seat manufacturer does as a business. (I also don't believe the forces were so great that no seat could be bought or made by another company... some of the Tesla models have good performance... but they aren't alone in that arena) The seat is a flagship example of NIH Syndrome - the same syndrome that has led to bloated costs, reduced profitability and poor quality and craftsmanship of Tesla vehicles. Tesla is figuring out how to do things for the first time - solving problems that have already been solved, and solved well by others. Looking towards the heavy-weights in the field and learning a few things could go a long way... Also, they've had a lot of executive turnover... we've all heard the stories about what it's like to work for Mr. Musk...
  - SEJeff 8y ago
    I will acknowledge that they tried to have a seat manufacturing company design and manufacture the seats, and it failed: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-seats/teslas-seat-strategy-goes-against-the-grain-for-now-idUSKBN1CV0DS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-seats/teslas-seat-s... Gotta say, as a Model 3 owner, I don't see any build quality or poor craftsmanship in the vehicle and I took a very long time doing final inspection at the service center before taking delivery. I'm not saying it has the same build quality as say a high end Mercedes or BMW (the model 3 isn't in that category of vehicle), but it is the nicest car I've ever driven as a daily driver. He is trying to do something differently, and he very well might do it slower as a result, but vertical integration will definitely lead to lower costs in the long run as there is simply less of the middle tier. When it comes to the guts, there is nothing but quality, and tesla easily stands alone in that regard: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/tesla-model-3-stuns-german-engineers-wonders/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/tesla-model-3-stuns-ger... TL;DNR: People have been hating on Elon since he said that banking could be online (when he founded x.com that became most of what is now paypal), and when he said he would found a rocket company, and when he said his rockets would be reusable by landing on boats, etc. He'll get it eventually, or die trying.