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Payments without permission. For example: * Donations to wikileaks * Payments to gray area businesses like porn and marijuana businesses who can't get credit

by lawn 8y ago

Payments without permission. For example: * Donations to wikileaks * Payments to gray area businesses like porn and marijuana businesses who can't get credit cards * Digital payments for unbanked. Yes many don't have bank accounts or credit cards but they have smart phones. * Payments to/from unstable countries. For example escape Venezuela with your wealth intact or receive aid from outside. * Cheaper than credit cards (who take 1-3% fees). * Safer for merchants as it avoids credit charge back fraud.

RIMR 8y ago
Porn has never had a problem with charging people's credit cards... And in states where marijuana is legal, cash is the easiest solution for everyone. In states where it is not legal, cash and Venmo seem to be the preferred methods of payment.
- lawn 8y ago
  I think you missed an article detailing how big a problem porn sites have accepting payments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756219 In short they're losing a lot of money since they need to go roundabout ways as credit card companies wants to avoid them. Cash is however not digital, cryptocurrencies are. The term "digital cash" gets thrown around sometimes.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  As a CO native, cash is only the easiest option because they literally can't accept credit cards. I'm sure most stores would rather not tell customers they need to go find an ATM and come back when they do.
- wonderwonder 8y ago
  And all of those credit card companies know that you have a porn subscription. That can be leveraged against you should you ever run for office.
  - gonzo 8y ago
    It used to be that previous marijuana use could be used against you.
    - wonderwonder 8y ago
      It still can. I have yet to see a state level or higher official openly claim marijuana use. Not saying they don't exist I have just not seen any. No politician is going to win after openly admitting to consuming pornography.
- CyberDildonics 8y ago
  Porn has always had a problem with credit card payments. They are forced to use special credit card processors that take a much larger percentage as fees.
freeflight 8y ago
> * Payments to gray area businesses like porn and marijuana businesses who can't get credit cards I was aware that US cannabis businesses have a lot of trouble getting banks to work with them, due to federal level issues, but I never even considered that angle. But looking at it now, it makes perfect sense, both crypto and cannabis legalization became very mainstream around the same time. Tho, have any legal businesses actually adopted this. How common is it to have a cryptocurrency payment option at retail dispensaries?
briatx 8y ago
> * Cheaper than credit cards (who take 1-3% fees). Not always. It would be more expensive than a 3% credit card charge on anything < $20 at current levels (0.62 USD). And if if the network actually gets busy, like it would if bitcoin actually went mainstream, then your max fees per transaction top out around $55. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees... > * Safer for merchants as it avoids credit charge back fraud. Less safe for consumers as this simply transfers risk to the buyer, who incidentally is the ones choosing how to transact. Why would they prefer Bitcoin over protected credit card transactions that, depending on terms, give a 1-2% cash kickback to the consumer.
- lawn 8y ago
  You're only looking at Bitcoin where the devs celebrated when the fees got up to $50. [0] It could have easily been prevented by focusing on on-chain scaling instead of waiting for off-chain solutions which aren't ready yet and possibly never will. This is what Bitcoin Cash does and the goal is to never have high fees again. During the latest stress test they processed multiple more transactions than Bitcoin could ever do and fees were still $0.0017. [1] Credit cards also has a small fixed fee which can hurt merchants you need to take into account when comparing. It's not easy to compare though since there are many different possible contracts. > Less safe for consumers as this simply transfers risk to the buyer You're right, that's a negative. > Why would they prefer Bitcoin over protected credit card transactions that, depending on terms, give a 1-2% cash kickback to the consumer. Because it might be the only payment method possible. Because the merchants now avoid the credit card fees and can instead pass on the savings to the customer. They are incentivized to do this to avoid credit charge back fraud (which they otherwise eat). [0]: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-December/015455.html https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017... [1]: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-stress-test-results-21-million-transactions-cause-no-surge-in-fees https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-stress-test-resu...

by lawn 8y ago

RIMR 8y ago

Porn has never had a problem with charging people's credit cards... And in states where marijuana is legal, cash is the easiest solution for everyone. In states where it is not legal, cash and Venmo seem to be the preferred methods of payment.

lawn 8y ago
I think you missed an article detailing how big a problem porn sites have accepting payments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756219 In short they're losing a lot of money since they need to go roundabout ways as credit card companies wants to avoid them. Cash is however not digital, cryptocurrencies are. The term "digital cash" gets thrown around sometimes.
oh_sigh 8y ago
As a CO native, cash is only the easiest option because they literally can't accept credit cards. I'm sure most stores would rather not tell customers they need to go find an ATM and come back when they do.
wonderwonder 8y ago
And all of those credit card companies know that you have a porn subscription. That can be leveraged against you should you ever run for office.
- gonzo 8y ago
  It used to be that previous marijuana use could be used against you.
  - wonderwonder 8y ago
    It still can. I have yet to see a state level or higher official openly claim marijuana use. Not saying they don't exist I have just not seen any. No politician is going to win after openly admitting to consuming pornography.
CyberDildonics 8y ago
Porn has always had a problem with credit card payments. They are forced to use special credit card processors that take a much larger percentage as fees.

freeflight 8y ago

> * Payments to gray area businesses like porn and marijuana businesses who can't get credit cards I was aware that US cannabis businesses have a lot of trouble getting banks to work with them, due to federal level issues, but I never even considered that angle. But looking at it now, it makes perfect sense, both crypto and cannabis legalization became very mainstream around the same time. Tho, have any legal businesses actually adopted this. How common is it to have a cryptocurrency payment option at retail dispensaries?

briatx 8y ago

> * Cheaper than credit cards (who take 1-3% fees). Not always. It would be more expensive than a 3% credit card charge on anything < $20 at current levels (0.62 USD). And if if the network actually gets busy, like it would if bitcoin actually went mainstream, then your max fees per transaction top out around $55. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees... > * Safer for merchants as it avoids credit charge back fraud. Less safe for consumers as this simply transfers risk to the buyer, who incidentally is the ones choosing how to transact. Why would they prefer Bitcoin over protected credit card transactions that, depending on terms, give a 1-2% cash kickback to the consumer.

lawn 8y ago
You're only looking at Bitcoin where the devs celebrated when the fees got up to $50. [0] It could have easily been prevented by focusing on on-chain scaling instead of waiting for off-chain solutions which aren't ready yet and possibly never will. This is what Bitcoin Cash does and the goal is to never have high fees again. During the latest stress test they processed multiple more transactions than Bitcoin could ever do and fees were still $0.0017. [1] Credit cards also has a small fixed fee which can hurt merchants you need to take into account when comparing. It's not easy to compare though since there are many different possible contracts. > Less safe for consumers as this simply transfers risk to the buyer You're right, that's a negative. > Why would they prefer Bitcoin over protected credit card transactions that, depending on terms, give a 1-2% cash kickback to the consumer. Because it might be the only payment method possible. Because the merchants now avoid the credit card fees and can instead pass on the savings to the customer. They are incentivized to do this to avoid credit charge back fraud (which they otherwise eat). [0]: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-December/015455.html https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017... [1]: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-stress-test-results-21-million-transactions-cause-no-surge-in-fees https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-stress-test-resu...