5 ms·

As much as the comments here are mostly leaning towards one side keep in mind that 99% of the users probably don't care and I'm sure they have the data to back

by dewey 8y ago

As much as the comments here are mostly leaning towards one side keep in mind that 99% of the users probably don't care and I'm sure they have the data to back this up.

forgot-my-pw 8y ago
There's always resistance to new changes, but if we never change, we can't innovate. - just a user
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  I'm usually an early adopter type. There are many new cool things that make me excited even if they're unstable and on bleeding edge. There are also new unusable things that make me want to go back. When I consider something to fit into the second group, that doesn't mean I'm opposed to changes and innovation.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  I see no innovation in the new design. What's the opposite of innovate? Outnovate?
  - forgot-my-pw 8y ago
    If you haven't read about it, new features include: snooze, reminders, suggested response, offline gmail
sp332 8y ago
I've been using GMail since 2004 and I'm not having any trouble, even in Firefox.
- eiieirurjdndjd 8y ago
  Same. I’m actually at google but I’m not going to tell the gmail team about this post because 1. I don’t agree with it, and 2. Gmail team is already painfully aware that any given change will be unappealing to a subset of users. 3. They are probably already here, taking note, considering. Unfortunately we can’t all have a custom UI written exactly to our specifications. Gmail team has to try to do what they think is best for most users. For the rest, there are various gmail UI tweak extensions for Chrome and Firefox, or you can write your own userscript or use an IMAP client.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > Gmail team has to try to do what they think is best for most users. I would love if Gmail team went forward and shared a bit about how they get data on what's best for most users. This would probably alleviate many complaints, by letting complainers (like me) know how dissimilar they are to majority of users. > For the rest, there are various gmail UI tweak extensions for Chrome and Firefox, Given the state of browser extension market, this is inviting users to selfpwn. > or you can write your own userscript Isn't this against the TOS? Even if it isn't, this solves the problem only for couple frustrated users with enough knowledge and too much time on their hands. > or use an IMAP client. Fortunately, yes, for now. I hope Google doesn't decide to abandon IMAP.
  - rurp 8y ago
    > Unfortunately we can’t all have a custom UI written exactly to our specifications. This isn't what most people are asking for though, they just want Google to not make the UX worse. Increasing the page load time and making a bunch of styling changes for no appreciable benefit makes the app worse, not better. If a lot of people are wishing the dev team had just done nothing, it's probably a sign that the changes aren't warranted.
  - babuskov 8y ago
    IMHO, you can never win the UI war, because habits. If they improve the speed and make it work as fast as the previous version did, I think most users will learn to live with the new UI.
    - jpindar 8y ago
      At which time they'll randomly change it again.
  - torstenvl 8y ago
    There is absolutely, 100%, without qualification, no circumstance whatsoever where a regression is good for most users. The fact that you think so makes it hard to take anything else you've said seriously.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Where would they get that data? Users are given no way to voice negative feedback. If most users are like most non-techies I know, I assure you, they do care. There's just nothing they can do, beyond telling first couple people they encounter that they hate the new UI, and carrying on with their lives. Because what are they going to do? Move 10 years of their e-mail history to Microsoft and IM/phone 500 people about their new address? -- This is, by the way, my fully generic response to "the market shows users like web bloat". No, they don't. They just don't have a choice but to accept it.
- eiieirurjdndjd 8y ago
  > Where would they get that data? The gmail product forums, monitoring sites like reddit, HN, and Twitter, focus groups and UX studies, internal dogfooders and trusted external testers, metrics from experimental or holdback groups, etc.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    I sincerely hope they do that. Given the evidence though, I also doubt it, or at least I feel the feedback is quickly dismissed under the "every UI change breeds discontent" rule of thumb.
  - nasredin 8y ago
    Ahh the famous Google Products Forum, where all the complaints and bugs are promptly fixed by real human beings!
- dewey 8y ago
  They could A/B test and show some users a form to give their feedback.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Why is this an acceptable excuse? I feel like a lot of the reason modern technology is in such a sorry state is due to this attitude.

by dewey 8y ago

As much as the comments here are mostly leaning towards one side keep in mind that 99% of the users probably don't care and I'm sure they have the data to back this up.

forgot-my-pw 8y ago

There's always resistance to new changes, but if we never change, we can't innovate. - just a user

seba_dos1 8y ago
I'm usually an early adopter type. There are many new cool things that make me excited even if they're unstable and on bleeding edge. There are also new unusable things that make me want to go back. When I consider something to fit into the second group, that doesn't mean I'm opposed to changes and innovation.
kgwxd 8y ago
I see no innovation in the new design. What's the opposite of innovate? Outnovate?
- forgot-my-pw 8y ago
  If you haven't read about it, new features include: snooze, reminders, suggested response, offline gmail

sp332 8y ago

I've been using GMail since 2004 and I'm not having any trouble, even in Firefox.

eiieirurjdndjd 8y ago
Same. I’m actually at google but I’m not going to tell the gmail team about this post because 1. I don’t agree with it, and 2. Gmail team is already painfully aware that any given change will be unappealing to a subset of users. 3. They are probably already here, taking note, considering. Unfortunately we can’t all have a custom UI written exactly to our specifications. Gmail team has to try to do what they think is best for most users. For the rest, there are various gmail UI tweak extensions for Chrome and Firefox, or you can write your own userscript or use an IMAP client.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > Gmail team has to try to do what they think is best for most users. I would love if Gmail team went forward and shared a bit about how they get data on what's best for most users. This would probably alleviate many complaints, by letting complainers (like me) know how dissimilar they are to majority of users. > For the rest, there are various gmail UI tweak extensions for Chrome and Firefox, Given the state of browser extension market, this is inviting users to selfpwn. > or you can write your own userscript Isn't this against the TOS? Even if it isn't, this solves the problem only for couple frustrated users with enough knowledge and too much time on their hands. > or use an IMAP client. Fortunately, yes, for now. I hope Google doesn't decide to abandon IMAP.
- rurp 8y ago
  > Unfortunately we can’t all have a custom UI written exactly to our specifications. This isn't what most people are asking for though, they just want Google to not make the UX worse. Increasing the page load time and making a bunch of styling changes for no appreciable benefit makes the app worse, not better. If a lot of people are wishing the dev team had just done nothing, it's probably a sign that the changes aren't warranted.
- babuskov 8y ago
  IMHO, you can never win the UI war, because habits. If they improve the speed and make it work as fast as the previous version did, I think most users will learn to live with the new UI.
  - jpindar 8y ago
    At which time they'll randomly change it again.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  There is absolutely, 100%, without qualification, no circumstance whatsoever where a regression is good for most users. The fact that you think so makes it hard to take anything else you've said seriously.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Where would they get that data? Users are given no way to voice negative feedback. If most users are like most non-techies I know, I assure you, they do care. There's just nothing they can do, beyond telling first couple people they encounter that they hate the new UI, and carrying on with their lives. Because what are they going to do? Move 10 years of their e-mail history to Microsoft and IM/phone 500 people about their new address? -- This is, by the way, my fully generic response to "the market shows users like web bloat". No, they don't. They just don't have a choice but to accept it.

eiieirurjdndjd 8y ago
> Where would they get that data? The gmail product forums, monitoring sites like reddit, HN, and Twitter, focus groups and UX studies, internal dogfooders and trusted external testers, metrics from experimental or holdback groups, etc.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  I sincerely hope they do that. Given the evidence though, I also doubt it, or at least I feel the feedback is quickly dismissed under the "every UI change breeds discontent" rule of thumb.
- nasredin 8y ago
  Ahh the famous Google Products Forum, where all the complaints and bugs are promptly fixed by real human beings!
dewey 8y ago
They could A/B test and show some users a form to give their feedback.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Why is this an acceptable excuse? I feel like a lot of the reason modern technology is in such a sorry state is due to this attitude.