3 ms·

I'm happy to see serious human rights concerns addressed in any and all forums.

yourbandsucks 8y ago
How come national policy of the host country is only relevant to specifically China, though? It's one thing to say "I won't censor and that's that", one could argue about which approach does more good/harm for the Chinese citizens affected, but it's an argument. But the argument I'm seeing go around is a lot more like "fuck China specifically". Which doesn't seem to square with the other views activists generally espouse about foreign countries/cultures.
someonelse17 8y ago
I don't see a unique human rights angel here, there are many companies doing business with China and a number of other "iffy" governments, if congress was truly alarmed by that they could sanction these companies. This thing became about political retribution after google dropped maven.
- math_and_stuff 8y ago
  To be clear, this isn't about doing business in China. It is about responding to 14 human rights organizations having serious concerns [0] about proactive censorship and support for surveillance. And I agree that Google is far from alone in crossing such ethical lines in Silicon Valley. [0] https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/08/28/open-letter-google-reported-plans-launch-censored-search-engine-china https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/08/28/open-letter-google-repor...
  - someonelse17 8y ago
    I'm not talking about Silicon Valley, I'm talking about all other industries in all countries, most Silicon Valley companies are banned in China, stop vilifying Silicon Valley. I'm sure these organizations are great and are doing wonderful work but they are not government entities and Google has no obligation to respond to them, further more these are non profits, attaching themselves to a high profile subject like Google gives them more exposure and potentially more donations.
    - math_and_stuff 8y ago
      I hate to bicker, but, according to Google's own AI Principles [0], they have a self-imposed obligation to respond to serious human rights concerns. They promised not to pursue "technologies whose purpose contravenes widely accepted principles of [...] human rights". [0] https://www.blog.google/technology/ai/ai-principles/ https://www.blog.google/technology/ai/ai-principles/
      - someonelse17 8y ago
        It's debatable if the China thing applies, in any case congressional committees need not interfere.
    - justtopost 8y ago
      All your comments have at least two things in common. 1. A seemingly willful disreguard for the facts. 2. Another striking commonality that I can't aledge but a trip through your comments will bear out. The topic always seems to be common. The timing of the account creation is of course purely circumstantial. Draw your own conclusions, but to say that you are constructively adding to discussion would be a reach.
      - someonelse17 8y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
      - dang 8y ago
        "Can't allege" is an oxymoron. Please don't insinuate astroturfing in comment threads. If you think you're seeing abuse, email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. We ban accounts when we find evidence of abuse (I've banned that one), but just dropping a comment in the thread makes it unlikely that we'll ever see it. It also poisons discussion in the case where the insinuation wrong, which is far more common. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

How come national policy of the host country is only relevant to specifically China, though? It's one thing to say "I won't censor and that's that", one could argue about which approach does more good/harm for the Chinese citizens affected, but it's an argument. But the argument I'm seeing go around is a lot more like "fuck China specifically". Which doesn't seem to square with the other views activists generally espouse about foreign countries/cultures.

someonelse17 8y ago

I don't see a unique human rights angel here, there are many companies doing business with China and a number of other "iffy" governments, if congress was truly alarmed by that they could sanction these companies. This thing became about political retribution after google dropped maven.

math_and_stuff 8y ago
To be clear, this isn't about doing business in China. It is about responding to 14 human rights organizations having serious concerns [0] about proactive censorship and support for surveillance. And I agree that Google is far from alone in crossing such ethical lines in Silicon Valley. [0] https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/08/28/open-letter-google-reported-plans-launch-censored-search-engine-china https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/08/28/open-letter-google-repor...
- someonelse17 8y ago
  I'm not talking about Silicon Valley, I'm talking about all other industries in all countries, most Silicon Valley companies are banned in China, stop vilifying Silicon Valley. I'm sure these organizations are great and are doing wonderful work but they are not government entities and Google has no obligation to respond to them, further more these are non profits, attaching themselves to a high profile subject like Google gives them more exposure and potentially more donations.
  - math_and_stuff 8y ago
    I hate to bicker, but, according to Google's own AI Principles [0], they have a self-imposed obligation to respond to serious human rights concerns. They promised not to pursue "technologies whose purpose contravenes widely accepted principles of [...] human rights". [0] https://www.blog.google/technology/ai/ai-principles/ https://www.blog.google/technology/ai/ai-principles/
    - someonelse17 8y ago
      It's debatable if the China thing applies, in any case congressional committees need not interfere.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    All your comments have at least two things in common. 1. A seemingly willful disreguard for the facts. 2. Another striking commonality that I can't aledge but a trip through your comments will bear out. The topic always seems to be common. The timing of the account creation is of course purely circumstantial. Draw your own conclusions, but to say that you are constructively adding to discussion would be a reach.
    - someonelse17 8y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    - dang 8y ago
      "Can't allege" is an oxymoron. Please don't insinuate astroturfing in comment threads. If you think you're seeing abuse, email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. We ban accounts when we find evidence of abuse (I've banned that one), but just dropping a comment in the thread makes it unlikely that we'll ever see it. It also poisons discussion in the case where the insinuation wrong, which is far more common. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html