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Fortunately we're something like (top of my head) ten times as important to the EU as either of those, and so even the most hardened remainer would privately ad

Fortunately we're something like (top of my head) ten times as important to the EU as either of those, and so even the most hardened remainer would privately admit that we should have more leverage in negotiations. Presumably Norway isn't in the ECHR, which would be significant. Neither is it obligated to join the Eurozone. It's more complicated than you're painting it.

kybernetikos 8y ago
Norway is part of the ECHR. In fact, just like the UK it was a founding member of the Council of Europe which agreed to create the ECHR at the Congress of Europe at which Winston Churchill was a delegate from the UK. The ECHR is a separate institution to the EU anyway so I'm not sure why it would be relevant. Leaving the EU does not leave the ECHR, and there has been no referendum to suggest that the UK should do that.
- zimablue 8y ago
  You're right on Norway being a member of the ECHR, I wasn't sure as I stated in my post, but you're vastly oversimplifying by implying there's no connection https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36149798 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3614979...
  - kybernetikos 8y ago
    There is no direct connection. But a respect for human rights is required to belong to the EU. Leaving the ECHR would cast the UKs commitment to human rights into question (at the very least it would be an indication that the UK has a different conception of human rights to the rest of the EU) and would mean that the EU would have to scrutinise whatever legislation took its place to ensure that the UK did still intend to retain a conception of human rights close enough to the other member states. None of this means that the recent referendum gave any mandate for leaving the ECHR.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Russia is in the EHCR, so I think it’s very reasonable to say it’s a separate institution.
pjc50 8y ago
Oh, probably, but leverage for what? Nobody can agree on things to ask for which the EU haven't already explicitly ruled out.

kybernetikos 8y ago

Norway is part of the ECHR. In fact, just like the UK it was a founding member of the Council of Europe which agreed to create the ECHR at the Congress of Europe at which Winston Churchill was a delegate from the UK. The ECHR is a separate institution to the EU anyway so I'm not sure why it would be relevant. Leaving the EU does not leave the ECHR, and there has been no referendum to suggest that the UK should do that.

zimablue 8y ago
You're right on Norway being a member of the ECHR, I wasn't sure as I stated in my post, but you're vastly oversimplifying by implying there's no connection https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36149798 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3614979...
- kybernetikos 8y ago
  There is no direct connection. But a respect for human rights is required to belong to the EU. Leaving the ECHR would cast the UKs commitment to human rights into question (at the very least it would be an indication that the UK has a different conception of human rights to the rest of the EU) and would mean that the EU would have to scrutinise whatever legislation took its place to ensure that the UK did still intend to retain a conception of human rights close enough to the other member states. None of this means that the recent referendum gave any mandate for leaving the ECHR.
- ben_w 8y ago
  Russia is in the EHCR, so I think it’s very reasonable to say it’s a separate institution.

pjc50 8y ago

Oh, probably, but leverage for what? Nobody can agree on things to ask for which the EU haven't already explicitly ruled out.