11 ms·

Elections are held on Tuesday as a way of restricting who can vote PERIOD. Poorer voters have a harder time getting off work, and getting transportation to vot

Elections are held on Tuesday as a way of restricting who can vote PERIOD. Poorer voters have a harder time getting off work, and getting transportation to voting site, which is usually close to their home, but not their work.

ntsplnkv2 8y ago
Seems simple enough to just make it a national holiday.
- graeme 8y ago
  The system is designed to prevent (certain) people from voting. So while a national holiday would make sense in the abstract, it goes contrary to the goals of those who make the laws.
  - graeme 8y ago
    To those downvoting: voter suppression in the us isn't exactly a secret: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Uni... In that line, a national holiday for voting would encourage voting. As such, all the groups pushing voter suppression would be against a holiday.
- subpixel 8y ago
  "Seems simple enough" is to politics what "this should be a quick fix" is to engineering.
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    So we should do nothing, give up. The world is absurd. Oh well. As something that helps the problem, it is simple enough. It's not an abstract idea. Our particular vessel at implementing such a change is where the complexity lies and the problem is with that, not the idea. Often times quick fixes solve major issues for enough time for more permanent solutions to be put in place. Patching a pothole does the job. It's not perfect, but your car won't get damaged anymore in the pothole.
- robszumski 8y ago
  I can't believe it's not either a national holiday or an accepted thing for all employers to give the day off. I know legally they have to give you an hour to vote, but the entire day sends a message that this is an important thing for you to do.
  - howard941 8y ago
    > I know legally they have to give you an hour to vote Are you certain about this?
    - mjcl 8y ago
      It's a state-by-state thing. CA requires employers give two hours off: https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2016-news-releases-and-advisories/california-law-allows-time-vote-election-day1/ https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advi...
      - howard941 8y ago
        A nearby post repeats the claim as if it were true nationwide, claiming that those who weren't given time off had to be supplied an absentee ballot. On its face it doesn't make sense unless we're talking about state employees, and we're not talking about state employees. EDIT copyedit
- jrockway 8y ago
  People work on national holidays, though. I assume there is some correlation between people who are unlikely to receive paid time off for voting and people that have to work on unusual days, so I'm not sure changing what day Election Day falls on will fix anything. The solution is to mandate that employers give you a couple of paid hours off on Election Day. I would be surprised if this was not already the case in several states. States can also help out by keeping the polls open for longer hours, so that someone who has to work an 8 hour shift has plenty of time on either side of their workday to go vote. (Last primary, I forgot in the morning, then worked late... and still had plenty of time to vote after work. The same is not true in every state.)
- Loughla 8y ago
  That doesn't help low income folks who work service jobs that don't get the same holidays. I feel like that would just make the middle-upper income vote that much more loud.
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    What about the middle class that would benefit from a holiday? Should we just ignore them because we don't have a perfect solution yet? Making it a holiday is a huge step forward. Taking other steps (like mandated hours off for all jobs) can also be done. Why can't we have a small step forward? Is there a problem with progress if it doesn't fully solve the problem?
    - thrower123 8y ago
      We don't have enough mandated holidays. 1.) There should be at least one federal holiday that constructs a three-day weekend each month. I think ideally, any new such holidays should grant the Friday, rather than Monday, as the holiday day - Friday is traditionally the day of dumping problems on someone else, and ruining their weekend. Ruining a three-day weekend in this fashion is especially egregious, and, at least temporarily, the Friday switchup should help to confuse the problem-dumpers. 2.) The informal Thanksgiving and Christmas-New Years week holidays should be formalized - these are already de facto periods of minimal productivity, they might as well be de jure, and we can just focus on being happy/miserable with our families during this period. 3.) In similar fashion, the entire 4th of July week should be declared a holiday, if for no other reason than to resolve issues of confusion on proper conduct when the 4th falls upon inconvenient days like Wednesday, as occurred this year. A week of vacation during the period when there is actually the potential of usable daylight and pleasant weather would have significant mental health implications. 4.) How the freak is voting day not a national holiday already?!?
    - Loughla 8y ago
      That's fair, but my genuine concern is we stop at the voting holiday. As people who have more income are more able to vote, the views of those who aren't able to vote become suppressed that much more. But you're right - don't do nothing just because to do something isn't perfect.
- bluGill 8y ago
  Not really. Do you need to get to the polling place? I guess all gas station workers are exempt. As is everybody working for the various transit systems. Can you ensure nobody has a medical issue on a national holiday? Doctors, nurses, and hospital support staff are all working. This also brings on either the entire power grid, or someone in maintenance to watch the generators. Do you eat? All restaurants are exempt. So are grocery stores. So are all the utilities related to energy needed for cooking. (though here Israel with their nobody working on the sabbath has an interesting take - in part that works there because non-jews are willing to work but it need not) Are you going arrest foreigners the night before (which is to say no passports are valid, go home before voting day and come back afterwards - bad weather is not an excuse to plan ahead)? I guess hotels get to remain open. You can go on. It turns out to run civilization we need a lot of people working even on holidays. Interestingly, it turns out a lot of these workers are the poorer people who you were trying to help.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    This is already a solved problem. Wage workers can get paid for a multiple of their actual hours as a holiday differential. But in order to invoke that system, you do need to declare the holiday.
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      This! And it has to be on-par with things like memorial day, labor day, thanksgiving and christmas... plus include primaries as well. If it is similar to President's day or Veterens day, not only will folks still work, but they will usually get paid normal wages that day as well.
    - bluGill 8y ago
      You didn't solve the problem, in fact you made it worse. For people who already have a problem getting to the polls you have just given them extra money to not make that effort - going to work instead.
      - logfromblammo 8y ago
maceurt 8y ago
If this had an actual impact on the election you would see one side push for changing the day as a strategy if they are more popular in the poorer populations than their opponent. Republicans would definitely want this more now considering Donald Trump's voter base was mostly lower income people. Same could be said for Barack Obama during 2014.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- fortomorrow 8y ago
  FYI. Trump won every income bracket above $50k, while Hillary only won those below https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/e...
  - bdamm 8y ago
    That's not what the graph shows at all. The graph shows that there is no statistical correlation between income and votes, except that lower incomes slightly preferred Clinton. The problem with this data is that it doesn't appear to be weighted by electoral college result, so we don't get to actually see what the impact on the election result is. And, even worse, the survey appears to include the question "Did you vote for Clinton or Trump" yet doesn't include that answer in the graph, so we don't get to compare the relative results. I tried to extract that result by using the male/female data assuming 50/50 representation, but ended up in a tie, and we don't get to know the bias of participants vs non-participants.
    - fortomorrow 8y ago
      Lol come on now, no need to be facetious. There are six income brackets broke down with the vote tallies for the respective candidates. The exit polling is not done for the Electoral College, and does not change the fact that every income bracket greater than 50k voted for Trump more than they did Hillary
bluGill 8y ago
The law required you be given enough time off to vote, or you be given advance notice to get an absentee ballot if they won't be close to home.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  This isn't followed well enough to make it practical, though. If you aren't scheduled to begin work until 2 hours after the polls open, they say you have time. It doesn't matter if you cannot physically get to the voting booth, vote, and travel to work in the time given. As far as absentee ballots are concerned, sometimes they are difficult to get. My mother had trouble getting one when she was pregnant - my sister was due around election day. She finally got it, luckily - because my sister was, indeed, born on election day.
  - tstrimple 8y ago
    These tactics are often combined with restricting voting locations in urban areas to force people to travel farther in an effort to maximize disenfranchisement.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  An hourly worker can vote, the just have to forgo several hours of income to do so. This is particularly true in several Southern states, where polling places are few and far between in poor districts. It also doesn’t help that you have to vote in your home district, when you may work a long commute away, increasing the amount of time away from work even more.

ntsplnkv2 8y ago

Seems simple enough to just make it a national holiday.

graeme 8y ago
The system is designed to prevent (certain) people from voting. So while a national holiday would make sense in the abstract, it goes contrary to the goals of those who make the laws.
- graeme 8y ago
  To those downvoting: voter suppression in the us isn't exactly a secret: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Uni... In that line, a national holiday for voting would encourage voting. As such, all the groups pushing voter suppression would be against a holiday.
subpixel 8y ago
"Seems simple enough" is to politics what "this should be a quick fix" is to engineering.
- ntsplnkv2 8y ago
  So we should do nothing, give up. The world is absurd. Oh well. As something that helps the problem, it is simple enough. It's not an abstract idea. Our particular vessel at implementing such a change is where the complexity lies and the problem is with that, not the idea. Often times quick fixes solve major issues for enough time for more permanent solutions to be put in place. Patching a pothole does the job. It's not perfect, but your car won't get damaged anymore in the pothole.
robszumski 8y ago
I can't believe it's not either a national holiday or an accepted thing for all employers to give the day off. I know legally they have to give you an hour to vote, but the entire day sends a message that this is an important thing for you to do.
- howard941 8y ago
  > I know legally they have to give you an hour to vote Are you certain about this?
  - mjcl 8y ago
    It's a state-by-state thing. CA requires employers give two hours off: https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2016-news-releases-and-advisories/california-law-allows-time-vote-election-day1/ https://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advi...
    - howard941 8y ago
      A nearby post repeats the claim as if it were true nationwide, claiming that those who weren't given time off had to be supplied an absentee ballot. On its face it doesn't make sense unless we're talking about state employees, and we're not talking about state employees. EDIT copyedit
jrockway 8y ago
People work on national holidays, though. I assume there is some correlation between people who are unlikely to receive paid time off for voting and people that have to work on unusual days, so I'm not sure changing what day Election Day falls on will fix anything. The solution is to mandate that employers give you a couple of paid hours off on Election Day. I would be surprised if this was not already the case in several states. States can also help out by keeping the polls open for longer hours, so that someone who has to work an 8 hour shift has plenty of time on either side of their workday to go vote. (Last primary, I forgot in the morning, then worked late... and still had plenty of time to vote after work. The same is not true in every state.)
Loughla 8y ago
That doesn't help low income folks who work service jobs that don't get the same holidays. I feel like that would just make the middle-upper income vote that much more loud.
- ntsplnkv2 8y ago
  What about the middle class that would benefit from a holiday? Should we just ignore them because we don't have a perfect solution yet? Making it a holiday is a huge step forward. Taking other steps (like mandated hours off for all jobs) can also be done. Why can't we have a small step forward? Is there a problem with progress if it doesn't fully solve the problem?
  - thrower123 8y ago
    We don't have enough mandated holidays. 1.) There should be at least one federal holiday that constructs a three-day weekend each month. I think ideally, any new such holidays should grant the Friday, rather than Monday, as the holiday day - Friday is traditionally the day of dumping problems on someone else, and ruining their weekend. Ruining a three-day weekend in this fashion is especially egregious, and, at least temporarily, the Friday switchup should help to confuse the problem-dumpers. 2.) The informal Thanksgiving and Christmas-New Years week holidays should be formalized - these are already de facto periods of minimal productivity, they might as well be de jure, and we can just focus on being happy/miserable with our families during this period. 3.) In similar fashion, the entire 4th of July week should be declared a holiday, if for no other reason than to resolve issues of confusion on proper conduct when the 4th falls upon inconvenient days like Wednesday, as occurred this year. A week of vacation during the period when there is actually the potential of usable daylight and pleasant weather would have significant mental health implications. 4.) How the freak is voting day not a national holiday already?!?
  - Loughla 8y ago
    That's fair, but my genuine concern is we stop at the voting holiday. As people who have more income are more able to vote, the views of those who aren't able to vote become suppressed that much more. But you're right - don't do nothing just because to do something isn't perfect.
bluGill 8y ago
Not really. Do you need to get to the polling place? I guess all gas station workers are exempt. As is everybody working for the various transit systems. Can you ensure nobody has a medical issue on a national holiday? Doctors, nurses, and hospital support staff are all working. This also brings on either the entire power grid, or someone in maintenance to watch the generators. Do you eat? All restaurants are exempt. So are grocery stores. So are all the utilities related to energy needed for cooking. (though here Israel with their nobody working on the sabbath has an interesting take - in part that works there because non-jews are willing to work but it need not) Are you going arrest foreigners the night before (which is to say no passports are valid, go home before voting day and come back afterwards - bad weather is not an excuse to plan ahead)? I guess hotels get to remain open. You can go on. It turns out to run civilization we need a lot of people working even on holidays. Interestingly, it turns out a lot of these workers are the poorer people who you were trying to help.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  This is already a solved problem. Wage workers can get paid for a multiple of their actual hours as a holiday differential. But in order to invoke that system, you do need to declare the holiday.
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
    This! And it has to be on-par with things like memorial day, labor day, thanksgiving and christmas... plus include primaries as well. If it is similar to President's day or Veterens day, not only will folks still work, but they will usually get paid normal wages that day as well.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    You didn't solve the problem, in fact you made it worse. For people who already have a problem getting to the polls you have just given them extra money to not make that effort - going to work instead.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago

maceurt 8y ago

If this had an actual impact on the election you would see one side push for changing the day as a strategy if they are more popular in the poorer populations than their opponent. Republicans would definitely want this more now considering Donald Trump's voter base was mostly lower income people. Same could be said for Barack Obama during 2014.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
fortomorrow 8y ago
FYI. Trump won every income bracket above $50k, while Hillary only won those below https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/e...
- bdamm 8y ago
  That's not what the graph shows at all. The graph shows that there is no statistical correlation between income and votes, except that lower incomes slightly preferred Clinton. The problem with this data is that it doesn't appear to be weighted by electoral college result, so we don't get to actually see what the impact on the election result is. And, even worse, the survey appears to include the question "Did you vote for Clinton or Trump" yet doesn't include that answer in the graph, so we don't get to compare the relative results. I tried to extract that result by using the male/female data assuming 50/50 representation, but ended up in a tie, and we don't get to know the bias of participants vs non-participants.
  - fortomorrow 8y ago
    Lol come on now, no need to be facetious. There are six income brackets broke down with the vote tallies for the respective candidates. The exit polling is not done for the Electoral College, and does not change the fact that every income bracket greater than 50k voted for Trump more than they did Hillary

bluGill 8y ago

The law required you be given enough time off to vote, or you be given advance notice to get an absentee ballot if they won't be close to home.

Broken_Hippo 8y ago
This isn't followed well enough to make it practical, though. If you aren't scheduled to begin work until 2 hours after the polls open, they say you have time. It doesn't matter if you cannot physically get to the voting booth, vote, and travel to work in the time given. As far as absentee ballots are concerned, sometimes they are difficult to get. My mother had trouble getting one when she was pregnant - my sister was due around election day. She finally got it, luckily - because my sister was, indeed, born on election day.
- tstrimple 8y ago
  These tactics are often combined with restricting voting locations in urban areas to force people to travel farther in an effort to maximize disenfranchisement.
alistairSH 8y ago
An hourly worker can vote, the just have to forgo several hours of income to do so. This is particularly true in several Southern states, where polling places are few and far between in poor districts. It also doesn’t help that you have to vote in your home district, when you may work a long commute away, increasing the amount of time away from work even more.