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People are better educated today and have more schooling Proof by insistence? When you see the written reports the kids produce at my university you can only d

People are better educated today and have more schooling Proof by insistence? When you see the written reports the kids produce at my university you can only disagree violently. Two or three years in, and they still have no command of their own native language. If they read books or the daily paper you'd expect them to pick up proper usage by osmosis, but no, not here, not at this regional 4-year college.

deleted 8y ago
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Nasrudith 8y ago
Sounds like a case of "elite bias" that crops up in history naturally. Previously mostly the far end of the bell curve would be the only ones you tended to hear about because they were the ones writing stuff down in detail. Roman graffiti while insightful doesn't tell you much more than humanity doesn't change much when it is just some guy boasting about his sexual conquests or insulting his neighbor. Not good for telling you who is in charge or how good a job they did. The noneducated got largely forgotten because they left little trace. Go to a retirement home and ask about what they did for a living and how much education they had - you will find a very high percentage without even a high school diploma - and that is the recent enough that they are still alive past. Look at the internet - when it was just universities everyone was more technically knowledgeable but now that it is widespread and accessible there is a broader range. That doesn't mean that technical adeptness is going down.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  You see the Miners Institutes in South Wales and the Workingmens Institutes in Yorkshire - and the people who founded those were in school until they turned 16 and then went to work for their coal mine or cotton mill. No university required.
watwut 8y ago
Proof by partial anecdote? The one that compares current students to assumed past students? And no, not everyone pick writing ability by osmosis. Some do, others don't. Speaking as someone who read a lot and wrote badly.
moate 8y ago
https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp Sorry to burst your bubble that "kids these days..."
cafard 8y ago
I'm not sure that one does pick up proper usage by osmosis. To me it seems that most of us require somebody to tell one that the writing isn't that good and requires more work, whether that someone is parent, teacher, or boss. My brother, who teaches a college class or two as an adjunct, complains of undergraduate writing. On the other hand, I can say that I was a copy editor long ago, and there were many Ph.D.s back then who couldn't write a clear paragraph.
qubax 8y ago
> Proof by insistence? Proof by statistics and facts. Hardly any women went to college back then. So that's about 50% of the population who were less educated. Thrown in minorities who were discouraged from getting an education, it's statistical fact. Perhaps if you bothered to read my comment rather than jumping to complain about your students... "Strange to think that people are nostalgic for an era were women ( half the population ) were discouraged from going to college and minorities were denied equal access to education." > When you see the written reports the kids produce at my university you can only disagree violently. Sure, the overall quality of the student body is lower because far more people attend college. But overall, the education level is higher collectively. Also, instead of blaming technology, have you considered the quality of educators have declined markedly?

deleted 8y ago

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Nasrudith 8y ago

Sounds like a case of "elite bias" that crops up in history naturally. Previously mostly the far end of the bell curve would be the only ones you tended to hear about because they were the ones writing stuff down in detail. Roman graffiti while insightful doesn't tell you much more than humanity doesn't change much when it is just some guy boasting about his sexual conquests or insulting his neighbor. Not good for telling you who is in charge or how good a job they did. The noneducated got largely forgotten because they left little trace. Go to a retirement home and ask about what they did for a living and how much education they had - you will find a very high percentage without even a high school diploma - and that is the recent enough that they are still alive past. Look at the internet - when it was just universities everyone was more technically knowledgeable but now that it is widespread and accessible there is a broader range. That doesn't mean that technical adeptness is going down.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
You see the Miners Institutes in South Wales and the Workingmens Institutes in Yorkshire - and the people who founded those were in school until they turned 16 and then went to work for their coal mine or cotton mill. No university required.

watwut 8y ago

Proof by partial anecdote? The one that compares current students to assumed past students? And no, not everyone pick writing ability by osmosis. Some do, others don't. Speaking as someone who read a lot and wrote badly.

moate 8y ago

https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp Sorry to burst your bubble that "kids these days..."

cafard 8y ago

I'm not sure that one does pick up proper usage by osmosis. To me it seems that most of us require somebody to tell one that the writing isn't that good and requires more work, whether that someone is parent, teacher, or boss. My brother, who teaches a college class or two as an adjunct, complains of undergraduate writing. On the other hand, I can say that I was a copy editor long ago, and there were many Ph.D.s back then who couldn't write a clear paragraph.

qubax 8y ago

> Proof by insistence? Proof by statistics and facts. Hardly any women went to college back then. So that's about 50% of the population who were less educated. Thrown in minorities who were discouraged from getting an education, it's statistical fact. Perhaps if you bothered to read my comment rather than jumping to complain about your students... "Strange to think that people are nostalgic for an era were women ( half the population ) were discouraged from going to college and minorities were denied equal access to education." > When you see the written reports the kids produce at my university you can only disagree violently. Sure, the overall quality of the student body is lower because far more people attend college. But overall, the education level is higher collectively. Also, instead of blaming technology, have you considered the quality of educators have declined markedly?