7 ms·

For Software Engineer, the first requirement - >> Several years of industry or hobby-based experience Key takeaway is “hobby-based”

codingdave 8y ago
2nd requirement: BS or MS in Computer Science or equivalent (Ph.D. a plus) So, sure, they were fine with hobby experience. But only if backed by solid CS chops.
- godelmachine 8y ago
  I am quite sure Google has always picked fellas without college degrees, provided they proved solid hobby based achievements.
  - kylnew 8y ago
    Provided those achievements play well to passing whiteboard tests about traditional CS topics
  - mattlondon 8y ago
    > fellas Not just men! Men, Women, and everything in between.
    - urda 8y ago
      > > fellas > Not just men! Men, Women, and everything in between. fella (fel·la) - nonstandard spelling of fellow, used in representing speech in various dialects. So we follow 'fellow': fellow (fel·low) - a person in the same position, involved in the same activity, or otherwise associated with another. And so we can conclude that this is completely fine. It can easily be reasoned that the GP was using it to refer to a generic group of individuals not just a single gender. By you drawing attention to it when it was a proper usage of the word, actually does more harm than good to your cause.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        Fella is overwhelmingly used as a gendered term to refer to men. How many real world examples of fella being used to refer to women can you find?
      - exoducks 8y ago
        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fella https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fella https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fella https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fella Nearly every usage of "fella" I've heard has had a "male" implication. At least in US English.
        urda 8y ago
        > Nearly every usage of "fella" I've heard has implied that it referred to a male. Neat, and I've heard it implied multiple times to refer to generic groups of people, in US English as well too just like you. The thing though we need to consider is definitions, facts, sentence context, and even the auhtor's intent much more heavily then both of our personal experiences. It can easily be argued based on context that the author's intent was to refer to a group of people generically, they even used the "nonstandard" and generic version of the word. Personal anecdotes do not make facts.
        exoducks 8y ago
        > Personal anecdotes do not make facts. That's precisely why I provided links to two dictionaries. Not the definition google spoon feeds you when you type in "define fella"
        urda 8y ago
        I provided facts as well, so let's use your own sources shall we? A person in the same position, involved in the same activity, or otherwise associated with another. [1] You conveniently ignored that when you attempted to mispaint actual facts in your comment. Here I'll even add another source: used of people or a person with whom you share something, esp. the same kind of job, interest, or experience [2] [1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fellow https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fellow [2] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fellow https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fello...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - inerte 8y ago
    Rarely, but yes. Overall Google was notorious for demanding degrees from top universities.
    - godelmachine 8y ago
      That's informative. Thanks! I had read an article where they elaborated how getting into Google is a lot more difficult than getting into Harvard.
      - FrojoS 8y ago
        Its not. There rejection rate is higher, though. Still, a person who gets into Harvard is more likely to also get into Google than vice versa. Google gets more applications per open position, so they also have to reject more. Lots of people think "Why not give it a shot and apply at Google." Very few think the same about Harvard. Also, I would say it takes more effort to apply to a university. They will require essays, SAT/GRE and letters of recommendations for a valid application.
        godelmachine 8y ago
        Makes sense.
        zinclozenge 8y ago
        It also probably costs money to apply to Harvard.
        psalminen 8y ago
        I thought early Google famously cared about the SAT/GRE scores of applicants regardless of age?[0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sat-scores-1393374186 https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sa...
        nostrademons 8y ago
        I applied to Harvard as a "why not give it a shot?" It involved ticking an additional box on the Common Application and paying an additional $25 or so. I needed the essays, letters of recommendations, SAT, etc. anyway, to apply to other schools. Harvard had no additional requirements besides them. (Amherst and Dartmouth, however, required additional essays. I ended up giving up on the Dartmouth supplement because I couldn't be arsed to finish it, then have them nag me for another 2 months about my uncompleted application before I finally told them that no, I didn't actually want to apply.)
- ataturk 8y ago
  Ha. I was working on my PhD in 1998 and I applied to Google for a summer internship. The problem was, Google demanded every transcript from every school I had ever attended, so two different undergrad, a masters, as well as my current institution. Each of those transcripts was like $20-$25 to obtain. I consulted at my checkbook. I had about $200 to my name that year. Wasn't gonna happen...
octorian 8y ago
> Key takeaway is “hobby-based” That's actually not a bad thing in my book. When I was at the beginning of my career, the fact that most companies completely disregard any non-work-related experience was extremely frustrating to me. I'd been tinkering with computers my whole life, working on stuff far above and beyond your average "just learned it in class" folks, and it was all irrelevant unless qualified by work experience. Of course today its commonplace to show off your "hobby-based experience" to employers via a Github page and F/OSS contributions, but back then it wasn't.

codingdave 8y ago

2nd requirement: BS or MS in Computer Science or equivalent (Ph.D. a plus) So, sure, they were fine with hobby experience. But only if backed by solid CS chops.

godelmachine 8y ago
I am quite sure Google has always picked fellas without college degrees, provided they proved solid hobby based achievements.
- kylnew 8y ago
  Provided those achievements play well to passing whiteboard tests about traditional CS topics
- mattlondon 8y ago
  > fellas Not just men! Men, Women, and everything in between.
  - urda 8y ago
    > > fellas > Not just men! Men, Women, and everything in between. fella (fel·la) - nonstandard spelling of fellow, used in representing speech in various dialects. So we follow 'fellow': fellow (fel·low) - a person in the same position, involved in the same activity, or otherwise associated with another. And so we can conclude that this is completely fine. It can easily be reasoned that the GP was using it to refer to a generic group of individuals not just a single gender. By you drawing attention to it when it was a proper usage of the word, actually does more harm than good to your cause.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      Fella is overwhelmingly used as a gendered term to refer to men. How many real world examples of fella being used to refer to women can you find?
    - exoducks 8y ago
      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fella https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fella https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fella https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fella Nearly every usage of "fella" I've heard has had a "male" implication. At least in US English.
      - urda 8y ago
        > Nearly every usage of "fella" I've heard has implied that it referred to a male. Neat, and I've heard it implied multiple times to refer to generic groups of people, in US English as well too just like you. The thing though we need to consider is definitions, facts, sentence context, and even the auhtor's intent much more heavily then both of our personal experiences. It can easily be argued based on context that the author's intent was to refer to a group of people generically, they even used the "nonstandard" and generic version of the word. Personal anecdotes do not make facts.
        exoducks 8y ago
        > Personal anecdotes do not make facts. That's precisely why I provided links to two dictionaries. Not the definition google spoon feeds you when you type in "define fella"
        urda 8y ago
        I provided facts as well, so let's use your own sources shall we? A person in the same position, involved in the same activity, or otherwise associated with another. [1] You conveniently ignored that when you attempted to mispaint actual facts in your comment. Here I'll even add another source: used of people or a person with whom you share something, esp. the same kind of job, interest, or experience [2] [1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fellow https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fellow [2] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fellow https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fello...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- inerte 8y ago
  Rarely, but yes. Overall Google was notorious for demanding degrees from top universities.
  - godelmachine 8y ago
    That's informative. Thanks! I had read an article where they elaborated how getting into Google is a lot more difficult than getting into Harvard.
    - FrojoS 8y ago
      Its not. There rejection rate is higher, though. Still, a person who gets into Harvard is more likely to also get into Google than vice versa. Google gets more applications per open position, so they also have to reject more. Lots of people think "Why not give it a shot and apply at Google." Very few think the same about Harvard. Also, I would say it takes more effort to apply to a university. They will require essays, SAT/GRE and letters of recommendations for a valid application.
      - godelmachine 8y ago
        Makes sense.
      - zinclozenge 8y ago
        It also probably costs money to apply to Harvard.
      - psalminen 8y ago
        I thought early Google famously cared about the SAT/GRE scores of applicants regardless of age?[0] [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sat-scores-1393374186 https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sa...
      - nostrademons 8y ago
        I applied to Harvard as a "why not give it a shot?" It involved ticking an additional box on the Common Application and paying an additional $25 or so. I needed the essays, letters of recommendations, SAT, etc. anyway, to apply to other schools. Harvard had no additional requirements besides them. (Amherst and Dartmouth, however, required additional essays. I ended up giving up on the Dartmouth supplement because I couldn't be arsed to finish it, then have them nag me for another 2 months about my uncompleted application before I finally told them that no, I didn't actually want to apply.)
ataturk 8y ago
Ha. I was working on my PhD in 1998 and I applied to Google for a summer internship. The problem was, Google demanded every transcript from every school I had ever attended, so two different undergrad, a masters, as well as my current institution. Each of those transcripts was like $20-$25 to obtain. I consulted at my checkbook. I had about $200 to my name that year. Wasn't gonna happen...

octorian 8y ago

> Key takeaway is “hobby-based” That's actually not a bad thing in my book. When I was at the beginning of my career, the fact that most companies completely disregard any non-work-related experience was extremely frustrating to me. I'd been tinkering with computers my whole life, working on stuff far above and beyond your average "just learned it in class" folks, and it was all irrelevant unless qualified by work experience. Of course today its commonplace to show off your "hobby-based experience" to employers via a Github page and F/OSS contributions, but back then it wasn't.