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Although I agree with the general point that Android is not totally open in an absolute sense, I think you too easily ignore the ways in which it is open relati

by jsankey 16y ago

Although I agree with the general point that Android is not totally open in an absolute sense, I think you too easily ignore the ways in which it is open relative to the iPhone. First and foremost, I don't have to jailbreak my phone to install apps not "approved" by Google/the carrier/whoever. I can download an APK from anywhere. Secondly, the code is open. This does matter in practice, because there are people who can and do take advantage of this to create modified versions (e.g. Cyanogen). If Google decides not to take a particular direction, but enough people want it, it can happen. Thirdly, it's not tied to one hardware manufacturer. Apple may make great hardware, but they attack a certain target market, which not everyone fits into. Finally, although your argument about carriers has some truth, it misses a couple of points. It's not like iPhone users are exempt from all carrier restrictions - why can I tether via my Android phone yet iPhone-owning friends cannot? And there is nothing about Android that forces you to use a certain carrier (ironically, in the US, it's iPhone users that have no choice of carrier). I purchased my phone on T-Mobile in the UK, now I use it on another carrier in Australia, no problem.

GHFigs 16y ago
I can download an APK from anywhere. Out of curiosity, do you (or any Android users reading this) find yourself doing this with any frequency?
- thwarted 16y ago
  I'll often use the barcode reader app to read QR codes for apps, some of which take you to the market page, others are links directly to apk files.
- jsankey 16y ago
  I have indeed installed apps this way. I admit that most apps I've installed are from the market, although that's missing the point. Frequency doesn't matter as much as the actual ability to make the choice independent of Google (or indeed any single corporation). If you think this doesn't matter in practice, consider Apple vs Google Voice on the iPhone. Apple rejected (or "didn't approve") voice, leaving iPhone users with no way to access it. Users would be better off if Google could have hosted a Google Voice package external to the app market.
- shill 16y ago
  Only to keep SL4A updated. It hasn't made its way to the marketplace yet. http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
- Osiris 16y ago
  I've done it for beta apps and some other things I've found on websites. Often there's a QR code to scan to download the file that's not in the market. Swype keyboard is an example of an app that's not in the market but can be installed via APK. For most users, it's not a big deal, but I think that's mostly because the Market has far fewer rules than the AppStore, so even apps that require root access can be uploaded to the Market.
- slowpoison 16y ago
  That's how I installed Fennec.
  - nkassis 16y ago
    Same here, also couchdb and a few other apps I've found that were available as APK and o'reilly books.
- harry 16y ago
  Quite a bit.
- biafra 16y ago
  Yes. Last example: Angry Birds It wasn't in the Market at first. And many seem to do it since getjar.com was down some hours after Rovio announced via twitter that you could get it there. I host pre-beta versions of my Apps on my own servers and give friends (and their friends) access to it. This would be impossible with iOS. I would have to know and register the hardware IDs of all devices in advance.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  I've never done it.
jsz0 16y ago
Carriers can actually disallow side loading of applications. AT&T seems to be the only US carrier to do this so far and there are work arounds but the power is there for carriers to do it.
- Sephr 16y ago
  Why wouldn't they be able to? Even if there wasn't an easy config switch that you can use when building Android, it wouldn't be too hard for a carrier to make a few modifications to disable the installation of non-market APKs.
blasdel 16y ago
s/jailbreak/root/g
kmfrk 16y ago
As valid as your points are, said arguments are also changing the conversation. "Open" isn't very useful PR - which is what it basically feels like with Google at the moment - and I think it's fine Jobs is trying to highlight the advantages of the iOS platform. 37signals should move on from Political Communication 101 and avoid getting caught up in spin vs. content.

by jsankey 16y ago

GHFigs 16y ago

I can download an APK from anywhere. Out of curiosity, do you (or any Android users reading this) find yourself doing this with any frequency?

thwarted 16y ago
I'll often use the barcode reader app to read QR codes for apps, some of which take you to the market page, others are links directly to apk files.
jsankey 16y ago
I have indeed installed apps this way. I admit that most apps I've installed are from the market, although that's missing the point. Frequency doesn't matter as much as the actual ability to make the choice independent of Google (or indeed any single corporation). If you think this doesn't matter in practice, consider Apple vs Google Voice on the iPhone. Apple rejected (or "didn't approve") voice, leaving iPhone users with no way to access it. Users would be better off if Google could have hosted a Google Voice package external to the app market.
shill 16y ago
Only to keep SL4A updated. It hasn't made its way to the marketplace yet. http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
Osiris 16y ago
I've done it for beta apps and some other things I've found on websites. Often there's a QR code to scan to download the file that's not in the market. Swype keyboard is an example of an app that's not in the market but can be installed via APK. For most users, it's not a big deal, but I think that's mostly because the Market has far fewer rules than the AppStore, so even apps that require root access can be uploaded to the Market.
slowpoison 16y ago
That's how I installed Fennec.
- nkassis 16y ago
  Same here, also couchdb and a few other apps I've found that were available as APK and o'reilly books.
harry 16y ago
Quite a bit.
biafra 16y ago
Yes. Last example: Angry Birds It wasn't in the Market at first. And many seem to do it since getjar.com was down some hours after Rovio announced via twitter that you could get it there. I host pre-beta versions of my Apps on my own servers and give friends (and their friends) access to it. This would be impossible with iOS. I would have to know and register the hardware IDs of all devices in advance.
steveklabnik 16y ago
I've never done it.

jsz0 16y ago

Carriers can actually disallow side loading of applications. AT&T seems to be the only US carrier to do this so far and there are work arounds but the power is there for carriers to do it.

Sephr 16y ago
Why wouldn't they be able to? Even if there wasn't an easy config switch that you can use when building Android, it wouldn't be too hard for a carrier to make a few modifications to disable the installation of non-market APKs.

blasdel 16y ago

s/jailbreak/root/g

kmfrk 16y ago

As valid as your points are, said arguments are also changing the conversation. "Open" isn't very useful PR - which is what it basically feels like with Google at the moment - and I think it's fine Jobs is trying to highlight the advantages of the iOS platform. 37signals should move on from Political Communication 101 and avoid getting caught up in spin vs. content.