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While I'm sure few of us would have controversial domains, let's remember that Cloudflare have removed the DNS records of sites that they didn't like in the pas

While I'm sure few of us would have controversial domains, let's remember that Cloudflare have removed the DNS records of sites that they didn't like in the past[0]. [0] - https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/

Meekro 8y ago
Very true, but the risk of using them should be weighed against the risk of not using them. Don't forget that pretty much all other registrars were much more eager than Cloudflare to shut down Daily Stormer, and expose you to Zoho-type risk that Cloudflare claims to mitigate.
- aestetix 8y ago
  Except that Cloudflare terminated Daily Stormer after allowing terrorist groups to operate under the guise of "free speech": https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/cloudflare-and-limestone-networks-have-been-securing-terror-group-jaish-e-mohammads-websites-3700375.html https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/cloudflare-and-...
  - aestetix 8y ago
    Can anyone explain why they downvoted me instead of just downvoting?
    - Shank 8y ago
      I didn’t, but I can provide some advice since I see this type of comment and nobody really gets advice on this kind of thing. Your comment wasn’t inflammatory — it was factual. However, it only contained a fact, and in that fact, the wording sounded like you were being not only factual, but perhaps a little too stuck to your guns. Controversial comments on HN are generally appreciated as long as they have both commentary and supporting evidence. The commentary part is key. Many of us have read HN for years and are very well aware of these events. Thus, posting about them isn’t news to us — it’s just noise. A new take on it or an interpretation from you is always welcome, but just “spreading the news,” is somewhat the antithesis of Hacker News in the comments.
      - aestetix 8y ago
        For the record, when I posted that comment, its score was in the negative, and now it's positive again. So I guess it was just a matter of waiting for more people to read it.
eridius 8y ago
That's misleading. They removed the records of one site. Not "sites". And they did it because that site was claiming that CloudFlare providing them services meant that CloudFlare secretly supported their (hate-based) ideology. And it's also worth pointing out that CloudFlare wasn't the only company terminating services for Storm Front. GoDaddy dropped them, then Google dropped them (and their YouTube account), then Tucows dropped them after just a few hours, and then finally CloudFlare dropped them. Or to put it another way, CloudFlare has dropped one single site. Pretty much any other competing service will have dropped numerous sites. CloudFlare's dropping of The Daily Stormer is really only interesting in that it was a violation of CloudFlare's previously-stated policies of only dropping clients that are breaking the law.
- Ajedi32 8y ago
  And, perhaps more importantly, Cloudflare admitted that was a mistake and promised that it wouldn't happen again. (IIRC.)
  - triodan 8y ago
    Can you quote a source for that? I'd very much like the assurance for a claim like that.
    - Shank 8y ago
      Yep! Here you go: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/cloudflare-ceo-the-people-behind-the-daily-stormer-are-assholes/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/cloudflare-ceo-t... Matthew Prince is a human like everybody else, and honestly, I would rather have him guarding my back than a lot of other tech CEOs.
      - triodan 8y ago
        Thanks for the source. Still, I'm getting mixed signals from that article, I guess he did what he did and regretted it? Have they taken steps to prevent something like that from happening again?
rndgermandude 8y ago
I have to admit, the cloudflare CEO unilaterally dropping a site - even a site as abhorrent as Daily Stormer - gave me pause. Still makes me a bit wary about cloudflare. It wasn't so much that they dropped the nazis, but more of how they did it.
floatboth 8y ago
That decision I support. An actually terrible idea they had though was to forward abuse complaints directly to the accused site owner, complete with personal information about the reporter: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/05/cloudflare-changes-abuse-policy-but-refuses-to-censor-the-internet/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/05/cloudflare-chang... But my biggest concern is that CloudFlare is centralizing the internet way too much. If most connections to smaller websites are proxied through CloudFlare, the web becomes very centralized: all your connections go either to other giants like Google/Facebook/Netflix, or to Cloudflare.

Meekro 8y ago

Very true, but the risk of using them should be weighed against the risk of not using them. Don't forget that pretty much all other registrars were much more eager than Cloudflare to shut down Daily Stormer, and expose you to Zoho-type risk that Cloudflare claims to mitigate.

aestetix 8y ago
Except that Cloudflare terminated Daily Stormer after allowing terrorist groups to operate under the guise of "free speech": https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/cloudflare-and-limestone-networks-have-been-securing-terror-group-jaish-e-mohammads-websites-3700375.html https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/cloudflare-and-...
- aestetix 8y ago
  Can anyone explain why they downvoted me instead of just downvoting?
  - Shank 8y ago
    I didn’t, but I can provide some advice since I see this type of comment and nobody really gets advice on this kind of thing. Your comment wasn’t inflammatory — it was factual. However, it only contained a fact, and in that fact, the wording sounded like you were being not only factual, but perhaps a little too stuck to your guns. Controversial comments on HN are generally appreciated as long as they have both commentary and supporting evidence. The commentary part is key. Many of us have read HN for years and are very well aware of these events. Thus, posting about them isn’t news to us — it’s just noise. A new take on it or an interpretation from you is always welcome, but just “spreading the news,” is somewhat the antithesis of Hacker News in the comments.
    - aestetix 8y ago
      For the record, when I posted that comment, its score was in the negative, and now it's positive again. So I guess it was just a matter of waiting for more people to read it.

eridius 8y ago

That's misleading. They removed the records of one site. Not "sites". And they did it because that site was claiming that CloudFlare providing them services meant that CloudFlare secretly supported their (hate-based) ideology. And it's also worth pointing out that CloudFlare wasn't the only company terminating services for Storm Front. GoDaddy dropped them, then Google dropped them (and their YouTube account), then Tucows dropped them after just a few hours, and then finally CloudFlare dropped them. Or to put it another way, CloudFlare has dropped one single site. Pretty much any other competing service will have dropped numerous sites. CloudFlare's dropping of The Daily Stormer is really only interesting in that it was a violation of CloudFlare's previously-stated policies of only dropping clients that are breaking the law.

Ajedi32 8y ago
And, perhaps more importantly, Cloudflare admitted that was a mistake and promised that it wouldn't happen again. (IIRC.)
- triodan 8y ago
  Can you quote a source for that? I'd very much like the assurance for a claim like that.
  - Shank 8y ago
    Yep! Here you go: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/cloudflare-ceo-the-people-behind-the-daily-stormer-are-assholes/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/cloudflare-ceo-t... Matthew Prince is a human like everybody else, and honestly, I would rather have him guarding my back than a lot of other tech CEOs.
    - triodan 8y ago
      Thanks for the source. Still, I'm getting mixed signals from that article, I guess he did what he did and regretted it? Have they taken steps to prevent something like that from happening again?

rndgermandude 8y ago

I have to admit, the cloudflare CEO unilaterally dropping a site - even a site as abhorrent as Daily Stormer - gave me pause. Still makes me a bit wary about cloudflare. It wasn't so much that they dropped the nazis, but more of how they did it.

floatboth 8y ago

That decision I support. An actually terrible idea they had though was to forward abuse complaints directly to the accused site owner, complete with personal information about the reporter: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/05/cloudflare-changes-abuse-policy-but-refuses-to-censor-the-internet/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/05/cloudflare-chang... But my biggest concern is that CloudFlare is centralizing the internet way too much. If most connections to smaller websites are proxied through CloudFlare, the web becomes very centralized: all your connections go either to other giants like Google/Facebook/Netflix, or to Cloudflare.