8 ms·

He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Mu

by rhema 8y ago

He may deserve that, but I believe that public perception is that Elon Musk is Tesla. In the same way that Bill Gates was Microsoft and Steve Jobs was Apple, Musk commands a huge moral force (in a Clausewitz sense... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz). Fire Musk and you need to hire a press team, rebrand, and basically become seen as a stuffy company instead of the hip trendy up-and-comer. How much perceived valuation does Musk create? 20%, 50% of the company? Hard to say, but I bet it's a big number.

ivraatiems 8y ago
It's big, but is it irrecoverable? Because the current situation might be.
- mtgx 8y ago
  Fire Musk and the board could also risk a situation similar to Apple's board firing Steve Jobs. Musk is taking too many chances with too many things, often unnecessarily, but without him Tesla could be trampled by the big carmakers in the coming years in the EV market. Who at Tesla will still want to add rocket alloy to their cars to make them the safest ever cars? Chances are whatever new CEO they hire will see that as a huge cost-cutting opportunity to be "more in line with the rest of the industry."
  - user5994461 8y ago
    The big car makers will be flooding the EV market, irrelevant of Musk presence.
    - kazen44 8y ago
      Also, the big car manufacturers have a huge head start in terms of actually producing a very large volume of cars across the globe. If toyota decides they can make a yaris or aygo as a purely electric vehicle, tesla will be nearly unable to catch that large, low end market segment. Also, you need low-end, mass volume cars to be able to push eletric infrastructure and replace the current gas infrastructure. (although i think using hydrogen and reusing the gas infrastructure might even be a better solution personally).
smacktoward 8y ago
And yet Gates is gone, and Microsoft is still here. And Jobs is gone, but Apple is still here. As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men.
- chriscaruso 8y ago
  Is Apple still there? Let's be realistic, it's a fraction of what it used to be. From a creative standpoint, it's catatonic.
- drawkbox 8y ago
  If Jobs hadn't of gone back to Apple in '97 after being fired in '85, they wouldn't be here today. Jobs was their last hope after Sculley made them mediocre. Apple was down to relying on a 150m investment from Microsoft in the late 90s (Aug 1997), that they probably only got because of Jobs [1]. I'd also argue everything that Jobs had created at NeXTSTEP became Apple and saved them [2]. The technology made it all the way into iPhone, you can see it in their libs still in Objective-C with the NS prefix [2]. Interestingly Jobs built successes in NeXTSTEP and Pixar while he was away from Apple for a decade, just like Musk has other companies. It could be argued Ballmer almost killed Microsoft, but Bill Gates has had influence in the company all along on the board up until February 4, 2014 as the chairman of Microsoft. Microsoft returned to developer/engineering focused with Satya Nadella was made CEO in February 2014 after the marketing/bizdev focused Ballmer era that nearly made them irrelevant, and Nadella has turned it around entirely back to developer roots. Tesla is an engineer first, I see that as way more beneficial than some operations or lifetime MBA / C-level executive running it, it will take the life right out of Tesla just like Baller at Microsoft or Sculley at Apple. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/steve-jobs-and-bill-gates-what-happened-when-microsoft-saved-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/steve-jobs-and-bill-gates-wh... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    > Tesla is an engineer first Nah, Tesla is a Twitter-first. Engineers seem to hate working there and are constantly leaving because of the PR obsessions.
buboard 8y ago
The difference with Gates and Jobs is Tesla has not delivered, i.e. it has not become profitable enough to guarantee success in the future. At this point he's indispensable. (There is also the thought that without him Tesla does not have an advantage vs cheaper competitors from all around the world)
- sosuke 8y ago
  I understand I think why you say Tesla has not delivered. But I feel like Tesla kicked off the entire electric car market finally. Not to mention the space stuff. Amazing work even if he is ousted I think. Plenty of awesome stuff.
- unstuckdev 8y ago
  This is key, I think. Microsoft had enough runway to figure it out. Apple has a multiple of that. What does Tesla have to keep it alive while they figure out the next step?
  - beamatronic 8y ago
    Your comment made me think of Tim Cook. He could run Tesla the rest of the way.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  That's a weird definition of "delivered". The car industry requires scale, and Tesla needs to be much bigger before it could possibly meet that definition of "delivered". That's why the last US mass-market car startup was Tucker.
  - buboard 8y ago
    do you believe the early adopters who are buying Teslas today are buying Tesla or Musk?
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "At this point he's indispensable. " If that's the case then there is a real management failure. It would be irresponsible to rely on one person. Also look at MS and Apple. So far they have been doing fine without Gates and Jobs.
binarymax 8y ago
2029: Elon Musk is hired back to lead Tesla after the board decides the brand, having been diluted over the past 10 years and the stock down to pennies, is in serious danger. Musk meanwhile had been focusing on SpaceX and laying the foundation for the first Mars colonization. 2031: Shortly after his return to Tesla, Musk introduces the first hovercar. 2035: SpaceX and Tesla merge 2042: TeslaX solarshuttles frequently take multi-year tourist visits to Mars and Europa 2047: TeslaX undergoes a hostile takeover by Amazon for 8.7T in stock (hey, who doesn't love a twist ending?)
- compcoffee 8y ago
  >Musk meanwhile had been focusing on SpaceX and laying the foundation for the first Mars colonization. I'll bet SpaceX management is dreading the idea of Musk showing up there every day to work.

by rhema 8y ago

ivraatiems 8y ago

It's big, but is it irrecoverable? Because the current situation might be.

mtgx 8y ago
Fire Musk and the board could also risk a situation similar to Apple's board firing Steve Jobs. Musk is taking too many chances with too many things, often unnecessarily, but without him Tesla could be trampled by the big carmakers in the coming years in the EV market. Who at Tesla will still want to add rocket alloy to their cars to make them the safest ever cars? Chances are whatever new CEO they hire will see that as a huge cost-cutting opportunity to be "more in line with the rest of the industry."
- user5994461 8y ago
  The big car makers will be flooding the EV market, irrelevant of Musk presence.
  - kazen44 8y ago
    Also, the big car manufacturers have a huge head start in terms of actually producing a very large volume of cars across the globe. If toyota decides they can make a yaris or aygo as a purely electric vehicle, tesla will be nearly unable to catch that large, low end market segment. Also, you need low-end, mass volume cars to be able to push eletric infrastructure and replace the current gas infrastructure. (although i think using hydrogen and reusing the gas infrastructure might even be a better solution personally).

smacktoward 8y ago

And yet Gates is gone, and Microsoft is still here. And Jobs is gone, but Apple is still here. As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men.

chriscaruso 8y ago
Is Apple still there? Let's be realistic, it's a fraction of what it used to be. From a creative standpoint, it's catatonic.
drawkbox 8y ago
If Jobs hadn't of gone back to Apple in '97 after being fired in '85, they wouldn't be here today. Jobs was their last hope after Sculley made them mediocre. Apple was down to relying on a 150m investment from Microsoft in the late 90s (Aug 1997), that they probably only got because of Jobs [1]. I'd also argue everything that Jobs had created at NeXTSTEP became Apple and saved them [2]. The technology made it all the way into iPhone, you can see it in their libs still in Objective-C with the NS prefix [2]. Interestingly Jobs built successes in NeXTSTEP and Pixar while he was away from Apple for a decade, just like Musk has other companies. It could be argued Ballmer almost killed Microsoft, but Bill Gates has had influence in the company all along on the board up until February 4, 2014 as the chairman of Microsoft. Microsoft returned to developer/engineering focused with Satya Nadella was made CEO in February 2014 after the marketing/bizdev focused Ballmer era that nearly made them irrelevant, and Nadella has turned it around entirely back to developer roots. Tesla is an engineer first, I see that as way more beneficial than some operations or lifetime MBA / C-level executive running it, it will take the life right out of Tesla just like Baller at Microsoft or Sculley at Apple. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/steve-jobs-and-bill-gates-what-happened-when-microsoft-saved-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/steve-jobs-and-bill-gates-wh... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP
- ucaetano 8y ago
  > Tesla is an engineer first Nah, Tesla is a Twitter-first. Engineers seem to hate working there and are constantly leaving because of the PR obsessions.

buboard 8y ago

The difference with Gates and Jobs is Tesla has not delivered, i.e. it has not become profitable enough to guarantee success in the future. At this point he's indispensable. (There is also the thought that without him Tesla does not have an advantage vs cheaper competitors from all around the world)

sosuke 8y ago
I understand I think why you say Tesla has not delivered. But I feel like Tesla kicked off the entire electric car market finally. Not to mention the space stuff. Amazing work even if he is ousted I think. Plenty of awesome stuff.
unstuckdev 8y ago
This is key, I think. Microsoft had enough runway to figure it out. Apple has a multiple of that. What does Tesla have to keep it alive while they figure out the next step?
- beamatronic 8y ago
  Your comment made me think of Tim Cook. He could run Tesla the rest of the way.
greglindahl 8y ago
That's a weird definition of "delivered". The car industry requires scale, and Tesla needs to be much bigger before it could possibly meet that definition of "delivered". That's why the last US mass-market car startup was Tucker.
- buboard 8y ago
  do you believe the early adopters who are buying Teslas today are buying Tesla or Musk?
maxxxxx 8y ago
"At this point he's indispensable. " If that's the case then there is a real management failure. It would be irresponsible to rely on one person. Also look at MS and Apple. So far they have been doing fine without Gates and Jobs.

binarymax 8y ago

2029: Elon Musk is hired back to lead Tesla after the board decides the brand, having been diluted over the past 10 years and the stock down to pennies, is in serious danger. Musk meanwhile had been focusing on SpaceX and laying the foundation for the first Mars colonization. 2031: Shortly after his return to Tesla, Musk introduces the first hovercar. 2035: SpaceX and Tesla merge 2042: TeslaX solarshuttles frequently take multi-year tourist visits to Mars and Europa 2047: TeslaX undergoes a hostile takeover by Amazon for 8.7T in stock (hey, who doesn't love a twist ending?)

compcoffee 8y ago
>Musk meanwhile had been focusing on SpaceX and laying the foundation for the first Mars colonization. I'll bet SpaceX management is dreading the idea of Musk showing up there every day to work.