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SEC wants to remove him from the head of the company: https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045407900259295233 https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045

by NN88 8y ago

SEC wants to remove him from the head of the company: https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045407900259295233 https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045407900259295233

slg 8y ago
Are there any previous examples of someone doing something similar to what Musk did and the punishments they received? I don't normally follow SEC cases, but this seems like a pretty extreme potential punishment compared to the slap on the wrist that many people were predicting.
- amyjess 8y ago
  https://www.seattletimes.com/business/apxex-itt-executives-agree-to-settlements-with-sec/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/apxex-itt-executives-a... https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/08/31/former-sp-executive-avoids-industry-ban-in-sec-case/ https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/08/31/former-sp-executi... (though the SEC failed in this case) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sec-deeba-insidertrading/silicon-valley-executive-pays-sec-insider-trading-fine-for-tipping-brothers-idUSKCN1LF2GK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sec-deeba-insidertrading/... https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c5c06de1-990f-420b-887e-f7e0ee67f326 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c5c06de1-990f...
- rpedela 8y ago
  Yes. SEC litigation releases, press releases, report major updates to cases including the resolution. Here is a Google search for "prohibited acting officer", the key legal phrase/keywords, on the relevant section of the SEC website. https://www.google.com/search?q=prohibited+acting+officer+site%3Awww.sec.gov%2Flitigation%2Flitreleases https://www.google.com/search?q=prohibited+acting+officer+si...
  - slg 8y ago
    I was asking what the punishment is for similar crimes and that isn't the same as asking for what crimes have caused a similar punishment. I looked through the first few results on that page and they all seemed, in my opinion, to be more severe crimes than what Musk is accused of doing.
    - rpedela 8y ago
      Add "misleading" to the search and the first few results seem similar to what Elon did. Making public, false, and misleading statements to investors is something the SEC gets pretty upset about. https://www.google.com/search?q=misleading+prohibited+acting+officer+site%3Awww.sec.gov%2Flitigation%2Flitreleases https://www.google.com/search?q=misleading+prohibited+acting...
      - slg 8y ago
        From the first result [1]: >In its August 28, 2012 Complaint, the Commission alleged that, between 2005 and 2008, Wwebnet, Inc., a video software company, and Kelly made false and misleading statements and omissions to investors, including... The accusations there are repeated and occurred over the course of several years. Musk has been accused of a single case of wrong doing. Musk's seems to be a much lesser crime. Also by still including the punishment in that search you are missing any similar accusations that received lesser or more severe punishments. [1] - https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2015/lr23177.htm https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2015/lr23177.htm
        rpedela 8y ago
        The answer to your original question is "yes". The SEC does not like when CEOs make misleading statements even once. All I did is point you in the right direction. I am not going to go through 100s of cases to find something that is exactly like the Elon Musk case for you. You are welcome to change the Google search yourself.
        slg 8y ago
- Lazare 8y ago
  > Are there any previous examples of someone doing something similar to what Musk did and the punishments they received? If you look at the facts of what Musk did...yes, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of examples, and they mostly go to jail or face, as Musk is, stiff civil penalties. It's pretty clearly fraud; he made false statements, which he knew or should have known were false, and he did so with the intention of manipulating his firm's share price. That's open and shut, and Musk hasn't really tried to deny it. > compared to the slap on the wrist that many people were predicting. If you squint a bit, there's a lot of reasons why what Musk did "feels" different. Maybe you think he had good intentions; maybe you think he was stressed. Maybe he was on medication that interfered with his cognitive abilities, maybe he's just a great guy, maybe the fact he wasn't financially profiting from the fraud makes it different, maybe Tesla is just really cool, maybe short sellers are just really unsympathetic, maybe this somehow just doesn't "count". All of those are plausible reasons why the SEC might give him at least a partial pass, and a lot of commenters were sort of expecting that it would happen. But fundamentally, the legal system says that what he did actually is really bad. CEOs of public companies who lie about material events in order to manipulate their share price are committing a serious crime, which is why outside of penny stocks and scammers, they never do that. Even if they were tempted, their legal team would tackle them and sit on them until the urge to set their career and company on fire faded, and the legal team would have the opportunity to do that because other CEOs don't just tweet whatever occurs to them, in large part because they know that's super dangerous, because this exact thing could happen. It's hard to overstate how unusual Tesla and Musk's behaviour here is for a multi-billion dollar company. Other companies of this size only communicate to investors through carefully vetted press releases, which is boring, but makes sure they don't accidentally step on a landmine. Tesla (or Musk) chose a different path, and here we are.
- taysic 8y ago
  It looks harsher when you know the person and empathize with them.
empath75 8y ago
damning

by NN88 8y ago

SEC wants to remove him from the head of the company: https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045407900259295233 https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/1045407900259295233

slg 8y ago

Are there any previous examples of someone doing something similar to what Musk did and the punishments they received? I don't normally follow SEC cases, but this seems like a pretty extreme potential punishment compared to the slap on the wrist that many people were predicting.

amyjess 8y ago
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/apxex-itt-executives-agree-to-settlements-with-sec/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/apxex-itt-executives-a... https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/08/31/former-sp-executive-avoids-industry-ban-in-sec-case/ https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/08/31/former-sp-executi... (though the SEC failed in this case) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sec-deeba-insidertrading/silicon-valley-executive-pays-sec-insider-trading-fine-for-tipping-brothers-idUSKCN1LF2GK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sec-deeba-insidertrading/... https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c5c06de1-990f-420b-887e-f7e0ee67f326 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c5c06de1-990f...
rpedela 8y ago
Yes. SEC litigation releases, press releases, report major updates to cases including the resolution. Here is a Google search for "prohibited acting officer", the key legal phrase/keywords, on the relevant section of the SEC website. https://www.google.com/search?q=prohibited+acting+officer+site%3Awww.sec.gov%2Flitigation%2Flitreleases https://www.google.com/search?q=prohibited+acting+officer+si...
- slg 8y ago
  I was asking what the punishment is for similar crimes and that isn't the same as asking for what crimes have caused a similar punishment. I looked through the first few results on that page and they all seemed, in my opinion, to be more severe crimes than what Musk is accused of doing.
  - rpedela 8y ago
    Add "misleading" to the search and the first few results seem similar to what Elon did. Making public, false, and misleading statements to investors is something the SEC gets pretty upset about. https://www.google.com/search?q=misleading+prohibited+acting+officer+site%3Awww.sec.gov%2Flitigation%2Flitreleases https://www.google.com/search?q=misleading+prohibited+acting...
    - slg 8y ago
      From the first result [1]: >In its August 28, 2012 Complaint, the Commission alleged that, between 2005 and 2008, Wwebnet, Inc., a video software company, and Kelly made false and misleading statements and omissions to investors, including... The accusations there are repeated and occurred over the course of several years. Musk has been accused of a single case of wrong doing. Musk's seems to be a much lesser crime. Also by still including the punishment in that search you are missing any similar accusations that received lesser or more severe punishments. [1] - https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2015/lr23177.htm https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2015/lr23177.htm
      - rpedela 8y ago
        The answer to your original question is "yes". The SEC does not like when CEOs make misleading statements even once. All I did is point you in the right direction. I am not going to go through 100s of cases to find something that is exactly like the Elon Musk case for you. You are welcome to change the Google search yourself.
        slg 8y ago
Lazare 8y ago
> Are there any previous examples of someone doing something similar to what Musk did and the punishments they received? If you look at the facts of what Musk did...yes, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of examples, and they mostly go to jail or face, as Musk is, stiff civil penalties. It's pretty clearly fraud; he made false statements, which he knew or should have known were false, and he did so with the intention of manipulating his firm's share price. That's open and shut, and Musk hasn't really tried to deny it. > compared to the slap on the wrist that many people were predicting. If you squint a bit, there's a lot of reasons why what Musk did "feels" different. Maybe you think he had good intentions; maybe you think he was stressed. Maybe he was on medication that interfered with his cognitive abilities, maybe he's just a great guy, maybe the fact he wasn't financially profiting from the fraud makes it different, maybe Tesla is just really cool, maybe short sellers are just really unsympathetic, maybe this somehow just doesn't "count". All of those are plausible reasons why the SEC might give him at least a partial pass, and a lot of commenters were sort of expecting that it would happen. But fundamentally, the legal system says that what he did actually is really bad. CEOs of public companies who lie about material events in order to manipulate their share price are committing a serious crime, which is why outside of penny stocks and scammers, they never do that. Even if they were tempted, their legal team would tackle them and sit on them until the urge to set their career and company on fire faded, and the legal team would have the opportunity to do that because other CEOs don't just tweet whatever occurs to them, in large part because they know that's super dangerous, because this exact thing could happen. It's hard to overstate how unusual Tesla and Musk's behaviour here is for a multi-billion dollar company. Other companies of this size only communicate to investors through carefully vetted press releases, which is boring, but makes sure they don't accidentally step on a landmine. Tesla (or Musk) chose a different path, and here we are.
taysic 8y ago
It looks harsher when you know the person and empathize with them.

empath75 8y ago

damning