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Nobody really likes Python the language especially much, but lots of people love Python the ecosystem, because it lets them get stuff done. I can think of a do

Nobody really likes Python the language especially much, but lots of people love Python the ecosystem, because it lets them get stuff done. I can think of a dozen languages I like better than Python, but none that's more practical in as many different contexts. -------------------- Edit: Apparently, there are some people who do like Python the language, and some people who dislike Python the ecosystem. If you want to find a thing, just say it doesn't exist, and it will find you.

alexchamberlain 8y ago
I disagree... I came for the syntax and readability; I've stayed for the community.
- JasonFruit 8y ago
  I suppose I like the readability too, but there are a number of things about the language I would rather had been done differently; I still insist that its approach to scope is worse than any choice except making everything global.
  - alexchamberlain 8y ago
    I tend to recommend people refavtor their functions into smaller ones if scope is not clear, but I accept it's different from many of its predecessors.
  - AlexCoventry 8y ago
    If the local/ global scooping rules are hurting you that much, you are probably putting more state in module-level variables than is healthy.
    - JasonFruit 8y ago
      It's not that: it's the hobbled function scope that doesn't handle nested functions the way I would expect and hope.
nikofeyn 8y ago
in my experience, the python ecosystem is a mess. yes, there are lots of libraries, but that is just one part of the ecosystem. for one, everyone uses a different distribution, whether it's anaconda, python(x,y), or just the default python install. this creates a lot of fragmentation, and it's hard to come into a project and fix the mess that's been created. then there's the 2.x vs 3.x issue that is still a problem. i have been introduced to three python projects at various times in my work, and all still used python 2.7 and even python 2.6. (these were projects that i helped out on and didn't create or own.) in each case, python made it quite difficult to even understand if you had setup the environment correctly. but yes, there are lots of libraries. i think people need to take a stance and simply pull those libraries into other languages (which many are already) or simply realize that most are just wrappers around some other language library, which can be easily done in other languages as well.
- FridgeSeal 8y ago
  You're right, it is a mess. Don't get me wrong, there's a huge number of packages available and a lot of them are really quality and I have used the language a lot, but good gosh is the packaging a deployment a fucking disaster. Environments are a 3rd party bolt on, that relies on hacking around with environment variables. There's no distinction between dev dependencies and actual, application dependencies. The packaging/deployment tool has gone through a bunch of different formats/styles and when it comes to deploying your code, you have nothing better than writing a bash script that automates your environment creation, activation and running of the packaging tool (you then just hope that Pip doesn't fail on some bizarre edge).
  - pseudalopex 8y ago
    Python packaging has a lot of warts, but you can specify dev dependencies in extras_require. Also, you can just run a virtual environment's interpreter without "activating" the environment.
pdonis 8y ago
> Nobody really likes Python the language especially much I beg to differ. I like Python the language. I also like Python the ecosystem.
deleted 8y ago
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alexchamberlain 8y ago

I disagree... I came for the syntax and readability; I've stayed for the community.

JasonFruit 8y ago
I suppose I like the readability too, but there are a number of things about the language I would rather had been done differently; I still insist that its approach to scope is worse than any choice except making everything global.
- alexchamberlain 8y ago
  I tend to recommend people refavtor their functions into smaller ones if scope is not clear, but I accept it's different from many of its predecessors.
- AlexCoventry 8y ago
  If the local/ global scooping rules are hurting you that much, you are probably putting more state in module-level variables than is healthy.
  - JasonFruit 8y ago
    It's not that: it's the hobbled function scope that doesn't handle nested functions the way I would expect and hope.

nikofeyn 8y ago

in my experience, the python ecosystem is a mess. yes, there are lots of libraries, but that is just one part of the ecosystem. for one, everyone uses a different distribution, whether it's anaconda, python(x,y), or just the default python install. this creates a lot of fragmentation, and it's hard to come into a project and fix the mess that's been created. then there's the 2.x vs 3.x issue that is still a problem. i have been introduced to three python projects at various times in my work, and all still used python 2.7 and even python 2.6. (these were projects that i helped out on and didn't create or own.) in each case, python made it quite difficult to even understand if you had setup the environment correctly. but yes, there are lots of libraries. i think people need to take a stance and simply pull those libraries into other languages (which many are already) or simply realize that most are just wrappers around some other language library, which can be easily done in other languages as well.

FridgeSeal 8y ago
You're right, it is a mess. Don't get me wrong, there's a huge number of packages available and a lot of them are really quality and I have used the language a lot, but good gosh is the packaging a deployment a fucking disaster. Environments are a 3rd party bolt on, that relies on hacking around with environment variables. There's no distinction between dev dependencies and actual, application dependencies. The packaging/deployment tool has gone through a bunch of different formats/styles and when it comes to deploying your code, you have nothing better than writing a bash script that automates your environment creation, activation and running of the packaging tool (you then just hope that Pip doesn't fail on some bizarre edge).
- pseudalopex 8y ago
  Python packaging has a lot of warts, but you can specify dev dependencies in extras_require. Also, you can just run a virtual environment's interpreter without "activating" the environment.

pdonis 8y ago

> Nobody really likes Python the language especially much I beg to differ. I like Python the language. I also like Python the ecosystem.

deleted 8y ago

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