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The problem that has happened at my company is that we take a "chance" on bootcampers or other people who aren't proven, we spend the time and effort to mentor

The problem that has happened at my company is that we take a "chance" on bootcampers or other people who aren't proven, we spend the time and effort to mentor and train them, pay them well, and then they turn around in 9-12 months and leave us for another company with their enhanced experience. It has happened 3 times so far, so we have stopped hiring bootcampers, and fresh grads and instead have started hiring people with a couple of years under their belts or more, since they appear to at least want to stick around enough to contribute positively to our teams.

sj3k 8y ago
This is me. I graduated last year and work at a small consulting shop doing web apps. I'm currently interviewing and getting offers from more established companies. This is the first time I've felt bad about leaving a company after one year. My coworkers are awesome. But the benefits suck, the clients are a nightmare, pay isn't great. I feel like I would be a fool to stay.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  What happened when you asked for better compensation after a year?
  - sj3k 8y ago
    Owners said they wanted to pay me more but couldn't afford to right now. Dangled a `maybe in 6months` in front of me.
    - Ocerge 8y ago
      Look out for yourself. If they can't bump your pay now, even without knowing the situation, I doubt they can in 6 months either. They also probably wouldn't hesitate to lay you off if they couldn't pay you what you make now.
    - shoo 8y ago
      defer, defer, defer
primitivesuave 8y ago
This is my experience exactly, and I am starting to get a sense of this mentality after my girlfriend went through a bootcamp. As a CS graduate myself I had several years to get a sense of what the industry looks like and what part of the industry I would be most satisfied working in (startups). Bootcamp graduates have less time to define their personal goals and industry view, so they are more prepared to give up equity and learning experiences for the opportunity to say "I work at [insert big tech company here]".
jve 8y ago
> Two managers are talking about training their employees. The first asks, "Yeah, but what if we train them, and they just leave?" The second responds, "What if we don't train them, and they stay?"
diminoten 8y ago
Conversely, I found it really hard to establish myself as a solid contributor and even a technical leader when I joined a team as a (relatively) newly minted developer. No matter how far I progressed, or how competent (even excellent) I became, I was still perceived as the "kid", even though my colleagues are only a few years older. I think I've mostly overcome this, but TBH I'm still not certain and I've been here for ~3.5 years in this role, and have been promoted to senior developer. None of that matters to my coworkers. Moving teams is a much easier way to shed that "newbie" reputation (a path I decided not to take). Is it possible someone is creating this culture at your work that locks people into their role when they join the team?
- techsin101 8y ago
  What diminoten said
sixothree 8y ago
I think we find a similar thing with people relocating to our city. They are most likely to leave after a year or two.
ryanmcbride 8y ago
How much does their pay increase after their first year? I was a bootcamp grad and I stayed at my first company for 3 years because the pay was adjusted to roughly market value (actually a little bit lower, but not too much) every year. I worked with a lot of other bootcamp grads, that have stayed there for 2-5 years. Our turnover rate for grads was very low. Right now there are bootcamp grads that got hired before me that are still working at that company. It's true that most bootcamps tell their grads that they should look for a new job every 1-2 years, but if you want to hold on to them, you have to pay them at roughly the same level they would get elsewhere. That's how you get them to stay. You can't expect them to just leave money sitting on the table.
opportune 8y ago
Big companies deal with this too. The solution is golden handcuffs - create a vesting or well-defined bonus schedule that incentivizes them to stick around. At the very least, offer them a signing bonus that they have to return if they leave of their own volition in less than a year
opcenter 8y ago
It sounds like they don't have enough incentive to stay? I know some others have mentioned financial incentive, but really enjoying the work you're doing and the people you work with may be even more important.
samontar 8y ago
Haha, that’s true. Those first few years are really valuable. I’ll happily hire from twenty companies’ just-no-longer-junior hires than from fresh grads. Those guys will bring twenty new perspectives whereas the new grads will be riffs off their mentors here. It’s really the best group to hire. And you can always pick them up after their first couple of vests and they’ve grown so much. Way better than training your own and take no lead time.
bestCauliflower 8y ago
That is your fault for not making the right contract. If it is really important that they stick around for more than a year, it has to be in the contract, with penalties if they quit earlier.

sj3k 8y ago

This is me. I graduated last year and work at a small consulting shop doing web apps. I'm currently interviewing and getting offers from more established companies. This is the first time I've felt bad about leaving a company after one year. My coworkers are awesome. But the benefits suck, the clients are a nightmare, pay isn't great. I feel like I would be a fool to stay.

stevenwoo 8y ago
What happened when you asked for better compensation after a year?
- sj3k 8y ago
  Owners said they wanted to pay me more but couldn't afford to right now. Dangled a `maybe in 6months` in front of me.
  - Ocerge 8y ago
    Look out for yourself. If they can't bump your pay now, even without knowing the situation, I doubt they can in 6 months either. They also probably wouldn't hesitate to lay you off if they couldn't pay you what you make now.
  - shoo 8y ago
    defer, defer, defer

primitivesuave 8y ago

This is my experience exactly, and I am starting to get a sense of this mentality after my girlfriend went through a bootcamp. As a CS graduate myself I had several years to get a sense of what the industry looks like and what part of the industry I would be most satisfied working in (startups). Bootcamp graduates have less time to define their personal goals and industry view, so they are more prepared to give up equity and learning experiences for the opportunity to say "I work at [insert big tech company here]".

jve 8y ago

> Two managers are talking about training their employees. The first asks, "Yeah, but what if we train them, and they just leave?" The second responds, "What if we don't train them, and they stay?"

diminoten 8y ago

Conversely, I found it really hard to establish myself as a solid contributor and even a technical leader when I joined a team as a (relatively) newly minted developer. No matter how far I progressed, or how competent (even excellent) I became, I was still perceived as the "kid", even though my colleagues are only a few years older. I think I've mostly overcome this, but TBH I'm still not certain and I've been here for ~3.5 years in this role, and have been promoted to senior developer. None of that matters to my coworkers. Moving teams is a much easier way to shed that "newbie" reputation (a path I decided not to take). Is it possible someone is creating this culture at your work that locks people into their role when they join the team?

techsin101 8y ago
What diminoten said

sixothree 8y ago

I think we find a similar thing with people relocating to our city. They are most likely to leave after a year or two.

ryanmcbride 8y ago

How much does their pay increase after their first year? I was a bootcamp grad and I stayed at my first company for 3 years because the pay was adjusted to roughly market value (actually a little bit lower, but not too much) every year. I worked with a lot of other bootcamp grads, that have stayed there for 2-5 years. Our turnover rate for grads was very low. Right now there are bootcamp grads that got hired before me that are still working at that company. It's true that most bootcamps tell their grads that they should look for a new job every 1-2 years, but if you want to hold on to them, you have to pay them at roughly the same level they would get elsewhere. That's how you get them to stay. You can't expect them to just leave money sitting on the table.

opportune 8y ago

Big companies deal with this too. The solution is golden handcuffs - create a vesting or well-defined bonus schedule that incentivizes them to stick around. At the very least, offer them a signing bonus that they have to return if they leave of their own volition in less than a year

opcenter 8y ago

It sounds like they don't have enough incentive to stay? I know some others have mentioned financial incentive, but really enjoying the work you're doing and the people you work with may be even more important.

samontar 8y ago

Haha, that’s true. Those first few years are really valuable. I’ll happily hire from twenty companies’ just-no-longer-junior hires than from fresh grads. Those guys will bring twenty new perspectives whereas the new grads will be riffs off their mentors here. It’s really the best group to hire. And you can always pick them up after their first couple of vests and they’ve grown so much. Way better than training your own and take no lead time.

bestCauliflower 8y ago

That is your fault for not making the right contract. If it is really important that they stick around for more than a year, it has to be in the contract, with penalties if they quit earlier.