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> obvious political propaganda Can someone please recommend an article/documentary/book/etc. that goes into detail about how this works in practice? It's so ob

> obvious political propaganda Can someone please recommend an article/documentary/book/etc. that goes into detail about how this works in practice? It's so obvious when you watch shows like Jack Ryan or Madam Secretary or Zero Dark Thirty that there are some backroom dealings going on that insert a particular political association onto the viewer, but the scale and scope of such a targeted insertion is so ridiculous that you start to wonder if you're just being paranoid. The amount of people that would have to be involved with it, and for everyone to go along with it... Someone must have blown the whistle on this at some point, right? I'm not out of my mind, am I?

ravenstine 8y ago
I'd be interested in that too, if it exists, although my assumption would be that it arises naturally because, if you want your work to be successful, you've got to conform to the group that you're in and drink the kool-aid. Hollywood and the entertainment industry are like that more than ever because the press, which makes a lot of money off making people enraged, are watching what they're doing 24/7 and waiting for even semi-notable figures to do something politically incorrect. There's a lot of pressure in entertainment to avoid anything that might be politically incorrect because that can mean a loss of profit in short order. If an actor in a movie or show says something on their own time that can be construed as offensive, that can mean millions in losses. So I don't think there's someone from up top telling writers what to write, but the nature of the industry encourages people to write a certain way and believe certain things(publicly).
- moate 8y ago
  >>So I don't think there's someone from up top telling writers what to write... Why not? The military spent tens of millions of dollars to inject patriotism into every sporting event as a way of advertising following 9/11. Stadiums weren't paying the Navy to do a flyover at halftime, it was the Navy paying for increased visibility. Seems just as likely that they have some clout/spending in film and television.
  - ravenstine 8y ago
    Oh, I'm not completely dismissing the possibility. It's just something that I doubt because not only would it have come out(as we know of what the military has done), but they probably wouldn't need to do it in the first place. Why explicitly tell people to write propaganda when the state of politics and the media causes them to write it for you?
    - mywittyname 8y ago
      > Why explicitly tell people to write propaganda when the state of politics and the media causes them to write it for you? Because political influence is valuable to people. Movies are the best way to ingrain a political narrative in such a way that it may persist for decades. If the next decade was full of movies casting the military as the antagonist, we know the long-term effects would be increased scrutiny on the military and reduced recruitment. This is why military injects themselves into the movie making process. They give production companies get access to billion dollar equipment and in return, the production company employs a host of high-ranking officers as "consultants" to ensure the film complies with the narrative they want to see. This is also why the Catholic church forced their way into the MPAA very early on. They wanted to ensure that movies portrayed Christian morals.
      - baud147258 8y ago
        > This is also why the Catholic church forced their way into the MPAA very early on. They wanted to ensure that movies portrayed Christian morals Well, that didn't lasted for long...
protomyth 8y ago
How about just watching the shows? Every little quip about a one political party or groups of people. Who do the shows make the villain? Who do they talk down to? It's pretty simple when most content comes from a small area and has the same assumptions. The diversity of thought in Hollywood is pretty narrow. Someone must have blown the whistle on this at some point, right? I'm not out of my mind, am I? There are plenty of books, but I get the feeling you would think all the authors are obviously tainted. Try "Primetime Propaganda: The True Hollywood Story of How the Left Took over Your TV" by Ben Shapiro. Now, if you consider him alt-right, then you have been seriously misinformed.
philwelch 8y ago
Tom Clancy himself had strong conservative political views and his work always reflected that mindset. If anything it would be disingenuous for a show like Jack Ryan to stray from that. Same could be said about Clint Eastwood, for that matter.
teh_klev 8y ago
You should check out Tom Secker's "Spy Culture" website. You'd be quite amazed how much influence the US Military (and other US departments) have when it comes to producing movies and TV series that need even the slightest assistance from the US Air Force/Navy/CIA/FBI etc. "Need to hire a couple of UH-60's for a scene? Let's be having a look at your script first." Secker also has a book (it's on my reading list) called "National Security Cinema"[1] which investigates these same themes. [0]: https://www.spyculture.com/ https://www.spyculture.com/ [1]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/National-Security-Cinema-Government-Hollywood/dp/1548084980/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/National-Security-Cinema-Government...
- wincy 8y ago
  The military wouldn’t give assistance with props and such in Independence Day unless they took out references to Area 51. https://uproxx.com/movies/why-military-cut-ties-with-independence-day-area-51/ https://uproxx.com/movies/why-military-cut-ties-with-indepen...
  - teh_klev 8y ago
    Yes, that's a very typical example.
- ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
  I'm sure you can find a better example than the people you are renting the helicopter from obviously not wanting to be shown in a bad way.
  - teh_klev 8y ago
    It's just a throwaway to explain the point with regard to the examples the parent poster cited. Peruse the site yourself and you'll find all sorts of other examples.
rasz 8y ago
For straight propaganda look no further than "the last ship", show practically written by Navy.
icebraining 8y ago
"Manufacturing Consent" is about the press, but it probably applies just as well to most media owned by big corps. You don't need a big conspiracy, just to set up the right conditions. To quote the best popular work on political economy, Yes, Minister: - Jim Hacker: "I thought these planning inspectors were supposed to be impartial?" - Bernard Woolley: "Oh really, Minister. So they are. Railway trains are impartial too, but if you lay down the lines for them that's the way they go."

ravenstine 8y ago

I'd be interested in that too, if it exists, although my assumption would be that it arises naturally because, if you want your work to be successful, you've got to conform to the group that you're in and drink the kool-aid. Hollywood and the entertainment industry are like that more than ever because the press, which makes a lot of money off making people enraged, are watching what they're doing 24/7 and waiting for even semi-notable figures to do something politically incorrect. There's a lot of pressure in entertainment to avoid anything that might be politically incorrect because that can mean a loss of profit in short order. If an actor in a movie or show says something on their own time that can be construed as offensive, that can mean millions in losses. So I don't think there's someone from up top telling writers what to write, but the nature of the industry encourages people to write a certain way and believe certain things(publicly).

moate 8y ago
>>So I don't think there's someone from up top telling writers what to write... Why not? The military spent tens of millions of dollars to inject patriotism into every sporting event as a way of advertising following 9/11. Stadiums weren't paying the Navy to do a flyover at halftime, it was the Navy paying for increased visibility. Seems just as likely that they have some clout/spending in film and television.
- ravenstine 8y ago
  Oh, I'm not completely dismissing the possibility. It's just something that I doubt because not only would it have come out(as we know of what the military has done), but they probably wouldn't need to do it in the first place. Why explicitly tell people to write propaganda when the state of politics and the media causes them to write it for you?
  - mywittyname 8y ago
    > Why explicitly tell people to write propaganda when the state of politics and the media causes them to write it for you? Because political influence is valuable to people. Movies are the best way to ingrain a political narrative in such a way that it may persist for decades. If the next decade was full of movies casting the military as the antagonist, we know the long-term effects would be increased scrutiny on the military and reduced recruitment. This is why military injects themselves into the movie making process. They give production companies get access to billion dollar equipment and in return, the production company employs a host of high-ranking officers as "consultants" to ensure the film complies with the narrative they want to see. This is also why the Catholic church forced their way into the MPAA very early on. They wanted to ensure that movies portrayed Christian morals.
    - baud147258 8y ago
      > This is also why the Catholic church forced their way into the MPAA very early on. They wanted to ensure that movies portrayed Christian morals Well, that didn't lasted for long...

protomyth 8y ago

How about just watching the shows? Every little quip about a one political party or groups of people. Who do the shows make the villain? Who do they talk down to? It's pretty simple when most content comes from a small area and has the same assumptions. The diversity of thought in Hollywood is pretty narrow. Someone must have blown the whistle on this at some point, right? I'm not out of my mind, am I? There are plenty of books, but I get the feeling you would think all the authors are obviously tainted. Try "Primetime Propaganda: The True Hollywood Story of How the Left Took over Your TV" by Ben Shapiro. Now, if you consider him alt-right, then you have been seriously misinformed.

philwelch 8y ago

Tom Clancy himself had strong conservative political views and his work always reflected that mindset. If anything it would be disingenuous for a show like Jack Ryan to stray from that. Same could be said about Clint Eastwood, for that matter.

teh_klev 8y ago

You should check out Tom Secker's "Spy Culture" website. You'd be quite amazed how much influence the US Military (and other US departments) have when it comes to producing movies and TV series that need even the slightest assistance from the US Air Force/Navy/CIA/FBI etc. "Need to hire a couple of UH-60's for a scene? Let's be having a look at your script first." Secker also has a book (it's on my reading list) called "National Security Cinema"[1] which investigates these same themes. [0]: https://www.spyculture.com/ https://www.spyculture.com/ [1]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/National-Security-Cinema-Government-Hollywood/dp/1548084980/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/National-Security-Cinema-Government...

wincy 8y ago
The military wouldn’t give assistance with props and such in Independence Day unless they took out references to Area 51. https://uproxx.com/movies/why-military-cut-ties-with-independence-day-area-51/ https://uproxx.com/movies/why-military-cut-ties-with-indepen...
- teh_klev 8y ago
  Yes, that's a very typical example.
ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
I'm sure you can find a better example than the people you are renting the helicopter from obviously not wanting to be shown in a bad way.
- teh_klev 8y ago
  It's just a throwaway to explain the point with regard to the examples the parent poster cited. Peruse the site yourself and you'll find all sorts of other examples.

rasz 8y ago

For straight propaganda look no further than "the last ship", show practically written by Navy.

icebraining 8y ago

"Manufacturing Consent" is about the press, but it probably applies just as well to most media owned by big corps. You don't need a big conspiracy, just to set up the right conditions. To quote the best popular work on political economy, Yes, Minister: - Jim Hacker: "I thought these planning inspectors were supposed to be impartial?" - Bernard Woolley: "Oh really, Minister. So they are. Railway trains are impartial too, but if you lay down the lines for them that's the way they go."